Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

[Miguel]

I think people are reacting too much on a williams win. They already were very very fast in Melbourne, and had both cars in points positions in a rainy Malaysia and in China. It was only Bahrain when they were poor. This is from a team that's been critisised for not employing drivers for their talent, on a pretty tight grid. Sauber isn't a bad car at all, and the main reason they didn't get a stronger finish in spain was Perez's tangle in the start.

If you don't like that the person who has the most switched on tyres wins, well, then you won't like Hamilton in rainy/damp 2008 either. Or McLaren in damp conditions for the last two years. The truth is set-up has always been critical in F1. Progress means we notice less of it today, since teams get it much better from the get go. Montoya once said that if you got it wrong, you'd look like an idiot that's 1s/lap slower than his teammate. Look at Button and Senna last race. Or Massa for almost the whole season. It still applies.

This year's pirellis are quicker in qualy. They are also quicker for the race... provided that you regulate their life. Is it really such a lottery that in a grid where 0.5s separate about 10 cars the person with the better setup gets a brilliant result?

[Nando]

Last two posts have been great imo, was a nice read.

[myurr]

@Miguel - completely agree. Indeed if we look at qualifying, where tyre life and durability is mostly removed from the equation, then we can see just how close the field is. Is it any surprise that getting the set up even slightly wrong sees you tumble down the order, or that getting everything just right sees you challenge for the win? The margins are so tight that even a 0.1% differential in performance can be the difference between nudging into the top 5 and tumbling out of the top 10.

Personally I welcome this. With things so even across the field then, subject to getting the setup right, the driver can make a real difference.

I'd rather the drivers were able to lean on the tyres more and try and race each other, but if the alternative is to go back to the Bridgestone borefests of the 2000's when people just waited until the pitstops to get past each other then count me out.

I think the two steps between compounds worked really well, and it was great to see Lewis in particular able to race whilst still maintaining good life in the tyres.

[Pingguest]

I do think the current tyres are too important and make pit stop strategies decisive for the outcome of the race. However, I think it is even worse Formula 1 is having this debate. Races should not be manipulated at all. But with standardized components, such is inevitable.

[siskue2005]

For me what i dont understand is the narrow setup window reason

Ok I agree there is narrow setup window.....and a slight cloud would cause it to change

But how come in some races, for example Williams in last race could do 3 sec faster laps than for Merc, Rbr , Mclaren etc? And those teams don't have any problem pushing the entire race.

And it's the same last race where it was Rbr last race, Merc the previous race, etc etc

I think there is something fishy going on

The pirelli guy predicted there will be a new winner in Spain!

Are the fia and Pirelli handing out good tyres to two selected teams?
Is there some conspiracy going on?

[Crabbia]

I think there is something fishy going on

The pirelli guy predicted there will be a new winner in Spain!

Are the fia and Pirelli handing out good tyres to two selected teams?
Is there some conspiracy going on?

I seriously doubt it man, the people making these tires love this sport just as much if not more than you and I. if they were making two types of tyres and controlling who got what some one making these tires would blow the wistle.

also your conspiracy presupposes that pirelli understands exactly what every car on the grid needs individually and knows that need precisely and knows that need for any given track. this is impossible.

[elf341]

Siskue raises a good point, although I don't think there is a conspiracy.

When you look at the times there are large periods of time with McLaren or RBR cars in free air (i.e. not held up by anyone) where they are at least 2 seconds a lap off the pace.

In terms of aerodynamic deficit required to cause that difference that's equal to around 60-90 points of downforce! Which is astronomical!

[myurr]

But how come in some races, for example Williams in last race could do 3 sec faster laps than for Merc, Rbr , Mclaren etc? And those teams don't have any problem pushing the entire race.

And it's the same last race where it was Rbr last race, Merc the previous race, etc etc

It comes down to thermal degradation. If you can keep the tyres in their exact operating window then you get good performance and good tyre life. If they're outside that window then you lose grip which in turn leads to more sliding which then leads to more tyre degradation and usually more heat build up which takes them further outside their operating window.

So if your setup is just out it's a vicious cycle that leads to worse and worse tyre performance.

[myurr]

Siskue raises a good point, although I don't think there is a conspiracy.

When you look at the times there are large periods of time with McLaren or RBR cars in free air (i.e. not held up by anyone) where they are at least 2 seconds a lap off the pace.

In terms of aerodynamic deficit required to cause that difference that's equal to around 60-90 points of downforce! Which is astronomical!

They're driving to a target time to preserve the tyres.

[FrukostScones]

I really don't think that it is a lottery. It is very tricky and the approach of racing might be a little bit diffrent but it is exciting. We should enjoy it as long as we can, soon Lotus will have figured out how to be on the top in qualifying and then we will see a Lotus dominance which only Raikkonen fans will enjoy.

[Pingguest]

The pirelli guy predicted there will be a new winner in Spain!

About what Pirelli guy are you talking?

[siskue2005]

Paul Hembery or something like that, he is the chief Pirelli guy
he predicted there will be a fifth different winner at Spain even before the teams reached there

[mx_tifoso]

Pretty much everyone predicted that, based on what had happened so far. But these tyres are confusing for everyone, as I can't imagine what the teams go through when they are testing new parts. Imagine testing new parts and then having random results and people challenging you with their times.

[Crabbia]

I'm sure they have ways of testing atleast baseline figures like drag and df, which are independent of the tires to an extent.

Surely there must be an answer tho, these tyres can't just be a complete enigma. I mean they are probably looking for a patern in the random results they are getting to try and solve why these tires behave so erratically. Isn't that what setup is. Getting to know your car and your package so that it can all be dialed in to the circuit and the ambient conditions to achieve the optimum result?

My apologies for the Ronspeak but it is actually quite sussinct.

[mx_tifoso]

Yes, of course. But from what I've gathered it seems that sometimes the tyres are unpredictable, either from how the car uses them or the track. But we've seen some cars be at the top one weekend, then fall to the midpack the next. That is what boggles minds; lapped one day and then you're lapping the next. =/