Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[mx_tifoso]

I would guess the assumptions are based on the fact that Renault have been consistently near the top all season long? Which means that despite the tyres, they have been able to control them pretty well as opposed to other teams who have more ups and downs.

[myurr]

I would guess the assumptions are based on the fact that Renault have been consistently near the top all season long? Which means that despite the tyres, they have been able to control them pretty well as opposed to other teams who have more ups and downs.

Which means that Zyphro's assertion, that they have a car with a wide operating window, is definitely true? Could it not be that they simply have the best understanding of the tyres and have been doing the best job out of the teams at getting the most from them?

I'm not saying either is true and the other false merely that to say that one or the other is definitively true is to make an assumption without presenting further evidence.

[Miguel]

The teams do have to work hard. But 5 races in + a test, they still have no idea what's going on.

Isn't very promising is it?

That is not true. We know that the McLaren is the best qualifyer. In Hamilton's hands at least, Button is struggling. We know the RBR is not dominant, and doesn't have the aero advantage of previous years, but is in the Top3 regularly. The Lotus is an overall great package. Someone said in the Pirelli thread that this championship will last until Lotus finds the key to the tyres, and he's possibly right: they have the drivability, the top speed and the aero. I'll be damned if they don't win a race this year.

Neither Williams nor Sauber have, IMHO, won the tyre lottery. What they have is actually a good car. Sauber were fast in Malaysia, in China and in Spain; it's been their strategies that have been suboptimal. Williams were quick in Melbourne, in Malaysia, and in China and blistering in Spain. Maybe the Mugello updates worked? I'm willing to bet a whole pound sterling Maldonado will be on the Top5 in the Monaco qualy.

The biggest enigmas so far are actually Ferrari and Mercedes. Did the Ferrari updates really work? Have they solved their traction/top speed issues? What the hell is going on with Massa? Is the Mercedes the car that dominated China or the car that struggled in the other 4 races?

Another thing we've learnt: driving <1 s behind someone for more than 4 laps will kill your tyres.

PS: Alonso lapped Schumacher in Hungary 2003.

[strad]

Everyone like to sugar coat the past.

In reality the boring racing, for example during the Schumacher era, was also far from "pure". They tried everything.....

.
HAHAHAHAHA I thought you were gonna talk about the past...The Schumacher era is day before yesterday to guys like me.
When the cars were less aero dependant,,,they could race..today it's been said that a following car is affected from a quarter mile back, let alone when they are nose to tail.
We need to change course,,take a step back, and get back to racing.
The only reason we can't is the masses of Johnny Come Latelys that think every thing has to be the way it is cause it might affect the show.
I think if they tried it they would like it.

[mx_tifoso]

I would guess the assumptions are based on the fact that Renault have been consistently near the top all season long? Which means that despite the tyres, they have been able to control them pretty well as opposed to other teams who have more ups and downs.

Which means that Zyphro's assertion, that they have a car with a wide operating window, is definitely true? Could it not be that they simply have the best understanding of the tyres and have been doing the best job out of the teams at getting the most from them?

I'm not saying either is true and the other false merely that to say that one or the other is definitively true is to make an assumption without presenting further evidence.

The last sentence sums it up. Either or is what is going on, or maybe a combination of both.

[.poz]

In reality the boring racing, for example during the Schumacher era, was also far from "pure". They tried everything to improve the show and failed. This resulted in the most boring 10 years or so in the history of F1. In this period, overtakes on the track never happened. All the overtaking was done in the pits.

That was boring. Now 99% of overtaking is done with DRS or when there is a relevant difference in tyres status. That is boring too.

[marcush.]

Kobayashi is overtaking no matter what pirelli is ´doing with the tyres.He has what most of the guys don´t have :a set of considerable balls and imagination.
His do or die assaults are awe inspiring ,he is taking most guys completely by surprise..

[strad]

This ain't racin..I don't know what it is,,but it ain't racin.
I think a close parallel would be the Mobil Gas Economy Runs in the limited fuel era.

[myurr]

Kobayashi is overtaking no matter what pirelli is ´doing with the tyres.He has what most of the guys don´t have :a set of considerable balls and imagination.
His do or die assaults are awe inspiring ,he is taking most guys completely by surprise..

Completely agree. And Lewis, now that he seems to have his mojo back, was also showing throughout the last race that you can over take without destroying the tyres. His overtake on the two Torro Rosso's was, in my view, the overtake of the year so far. Kobayashi's cheeky little dive up the inside of Button (I think it was Button) was also a brilliant move.

So it can be done if you're brave enough and good enough.

[ubrben]

Kobayashi is overtaking no matter what pirelli is ´doing with the tyres.He has what most of the guys don´t have :a set of considerable balls and imagination.
His do or die assaults are awe inspiring ,he is taking most guys completely by surprise..

Completely agree. And Lewis, now that he seems to have his mojo back, was also showing throughout the last race that you can over take without destroying the tyres. His overtake on the two Torro Rosso's was, in my view, the overtake of the year so far. Kobayashi's cheeky little dive up the inside of Button (I think it was Button) was also a brilliant move.

So it can be done if you're brave enough and good enough.

Let's not get carried away. There's always been overtaking when a top car has to start from the back.

Ben

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

When the cars were less aero dependant,,,they could race..today it's been said that a following car is affected from a quarter mile back, let alone when they are nose to tail.

Dont take this the wrong way, but I believe you are reminiscing far too fondly.
How is this less aero dependant than what we have today?



The problem of "dirty air" was far greater back in the day than what we have today.
My thoughts on 2012 tyres are that they are a good thing for racing. Why? Because on any given track in the rights circumstances, any one of 6-7 teams can win a race on merit. When has that been the case in F1?
A driver is now a more integral part of the package, the car less so. The tyres are a variable a driver can control. And teams have to make them work better to perform well.

For me, that is far better than watching a driver with a crushing car advantage scarper off into the distance. Look at Vettel for example, looked amazing last year....now he looks Human. Alternatively, look at Alonso. We all know he is good...but he is wringing the neck of the Ferrari and its a joy to behold.

As a spectacle, as a racing series, I think F1 is better off now than it was a decade ago. Easily.

[myurr]

Let's not get carried away. There's always been overtaking when a top car has to start from the back.

Ben

The point was he was able to do that whilst getting better tyre life than anyone else. It can be done.

[DaveW]

One of my illustrious colleagues has highlighted the remarkable coincidence of the result of the Spanish GP and FW's 70th birthday.

Does that suggest that the PR machine speaks the truth (for a change).... & Pirelli does know to build a good tyre, but choses not to, except to order, of course.

[ubrben]

One of my illustrious colleagues has highlighted the remarkable coincidence of the result of the Spanish GP and FW's 70th birthday.

Does that suggest that the PR machine speaks the truth (for a change).... & Pirelli does know to build a good tyre, but choses not to, except to order, of course.

You mean a bit like Hungary in 1997...

I was waiting for someone more cynical than I to suggest it... (I'm very cynical BTW)

Ben

[bhall]

Dont take this the wrong way, but I believe you are reminiscing far too fondly.
How is this less aero dependant than what we have today?

[A 248 F1]

The problem of "dirty air" was far greater back in the day than what we have today.
[...]

I believe the "back in the day" to which my man strad referred was a bit further back than 6 years ago.

That said, enjoy this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loDNAXJBwPo[/youtube]

"Dirty air" is a myth, like the Loch Ness Monster and the Yeti.