The Fanboy Yin Yang Thread

[FakeAlonso]

Hungary.....

Yea that was geared towards Hamilton...

So there was no bias in the first 10 races?

In Hungary what did the team do that was unfair or unequal? There was a spat between Hamilton and Alonso on track but then Alonso took it too far in retaliation. How was Alonso hindered that weekend except for a penalty that was of the drivers own creation?

No it started with Hamilton ruining is lap, and you know it was in purpose. If you deny this you are living in denial.

Team failed in the prior 10 races to avoid this. ALonso being Spaniard would never let that go so he made HAM pay back. He got a penalty but again this comes from the team failing to keep the harmony in the team by being fans for Hamilton. Therefore Alonso had to work in a bad and not normal team environment.

[myurr]

How about Alonso being told to sit still in the pitlane?

I´d also would love to see some proof of this in-equal treatment the first races.

Not sure what you're referring to. Alonso being held for a few seconds before being released during his pitstop? That's routine up and down the pitlane when you're trying to release the driver into a specific gap in the traffic. Alonso then decided to sit still for a whole while longer after his release in order to block Hamilton from being able to qualify.

I'm saying there was no inequality in any of the races so yes I would love to see some proof to back up the assertions being made that McLaren did not give Alonso equal machinery or opportunity to win.

[FakeAlonso]

I am not saying that hindered Alonsos's races but since there were tensions between drivers IMO It looked like the Team was behind Hamilton. Under this circumstances is hard for a fighter like Alonso to be in a team that has this spirit of indirect or invisible favoritism for Hamilton. Admit it Mclaren is responsibility for failing to balance the harmony in the team.

So the team didn't do anything except support their rookie?

McLaren could have handled it a lot better but equally Alonso could have acted like an adult. He demanded preferential treatment and ultimately escalated things to the point of trying to blackmail the team principal. So yes McLaren could have cracked down on both drivers and demanded a more mature approach but they never once hindered Alonso or tried to ruin his performance.

Do you have any evidence that he demanded preferential treatment and even blackmailing the team? If he has done that he must have guts.

[FakeAlonso]

How about Alonso being told to sit still in the pitlane?

I´d also would love to see some proof of this in-equal treatment the first races.

Not sure what you're referring to. Alonso being held for a few seconds before being released during his pitstop? That's routine up and down the pitlane when you're trying to release the driver into a specific gap in the traffic. Alonso then decided to sit still for a whole while longer after his release in order to block Hamilton from being able to qualify.

I'm saying there was no inequality in any of the races so yes I would love to see some proof to back up the assertions being made that McLaren did not give Alonso equal machinery or opportunity to win.

No Hamilton ruined his lap.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJCGInsVUs[/youtube]

[myurr]

No it started with Hamilton ruining is lap, and you know it was in purpose. If you deny this you are living in denial.

Team failed in the prior 10 races to avoid this. ALonso being Spaniard would never let that go so he made HAM pay back. He got a penalty but again this comes from the team failing to keep the harmony in the team by being fans for Hamilton. Therefore Alonso had to work in a bad and not normal team environment.

He didn't ruin his lap, he didn't let Alonso past so Alonso had to drop back and then attempt his lap. So Hamilton took the optimal lap and Alonso had to make do with the lap Hamilton was supposed to have been given. That was between the drivers on track, the team had nothing to do with it and would have reprimanded Hamilton had they had a chance to. Alonso took revenge before they had a chance to do anything.

You cannot point to anything the team did to hinder Alonso or stop him from having the opportunity to out perform Hamilton or win races, simply because the team didn't do anything wrong in that regard. I have said that they could have managed both drivers better, but frankly I'm not sure anyone could have kept those two in line that year with the way Hamilton was out performing Alonso at that stage of the campaign.

What you are actually saying is that the team didn't support Alonso because they didn't actively promote his chances over Hamilton's. That can only be done by hindering the other driver. That's not equality.

[xpensive]

To my mind, even considering NOT favoring a double WDC vs a rookie was a cardinal error, something which later proved detrimental to McLaren's chances of securing the 1997 WDC, didn't it? Ferrari would never ever gone that route.

[myurr]

I am not saying that hindered Alonsos's races but since there were tensions between drivers IMO It looked like the Team was behind Hamilton. Under this circumstances is hard for a fighter like Alonso to be in a team that has this spirit of indirect or invisible favoritism for Hamilton. Admit it Mclaren is responsibility for failing to balance the harmony in the team.

So the team didn't do anything except support their rookie?

McLaren could have handled it a lot better but equally Alonso could have acted like an adult. He demanded preferential treatment and ultimately escalated things to the point of trying to blackmail the team principal. So yes McLaren could have cracked down on both drivers and demanded a more mature approach but they never once hindered Alonso or tried to ruin his performance.

Do you have any evidence that he demanded preferential treatment and even blackmailing the team? If he has done that he must have guts.

Ron Dennis publicly stated that Alonso blackmailed him triggering his phone to Max Mosely and the reopening of the FIA investigation into Ferrari data. I believe this was enshrined in evidence at the subsequent FIA trial.

That's not guts, that's corruption.

[FakeAlonso]

No it started with Hamilton ruining is lap, and you know it was in purpose. If you deny this you are living in denial.

Team failed in the prior 10 races to avoid this. ALonso being Spaniard would never let that go so he made HAM pay back. He got a penalty but again this comes from the team failing to keep the harmony in the team by being fans for Hamilton. Therefore Alonso had to work in a bad and not normal team environment.

He didn't ruin his lap, he didn't let Alonso past so Alonso had to drop back and then attempt his lap. So Hamilton took the optimal lap and Alonso had to make do with the lap Hamilton was supposed to have been given. That was between the drivers on track, the team had nothing to do with it and would have reprimanded Hamilton had they had a chance to. Alonso took revenge before they had a chance to do anything.

You cannot point to anything the team did to hinder Alonso or stop him from having the opportunity to out perform Hamilton or win races, simply because the team didn't do anything wrong in that regard. I have said that they could have managed both drivers better, but frankly I'm not sure anyone could have kept those two in line that year with the way Hamilton was out performing Alonso at that stage of the campaign.

What you are actually saying is that the team didn't support Alonso because they didn't actively promote his chances over Hamilton's. That can only be done by hindering the other driver. That's not equality.

Look at the video I posted. Is official FIA review.

[myurr]

To my mind, even considering NOT favoring a double WDC vs a rookie was a cardinal error, something which later proved detrimental to McLaren's chances of securing the 1997 WDC, didn't it? Ferrari would never ever gone that route.

That's your opinion, I would rather a driver win on merit not reputation and I would rather a team lose the WDC than win by stopping one of their drivers from challenging. Also don't forget Hamilton was leading the WDC by the time they got to Hungary.

Either way not supporting the WDC over the rookie and insisting they get equal opportunity is not evidence of the team being biased against the WDC.

[myurr]

Look at the video I posted. Is official FIA review.

Can't see anything there where Hamilton ruined Alonso's lap. He's a few hundred metres ahead of him on the track at the point Alonso was over driving, ran wide, and started flapping his arms around.

He didn't give Alonso track position so Hamilton got to run first rather than second, that is all. It was naughty but didn't ruin Alonso's lap, and Alonso should have been adult enough to let the team deal with it.

[Nando]

How about Alonso being told to sit still in the pitlane?

I´d also would love to see some proof of this in-equal treatment the first races.

Not sure what you're referring to. Alonso being held for a few seconds before being released during his pitstop? That's routine up and down the pitlane when you're trying to release the driver into a specific gap in the traffic. Alonso then decided to sit still for a whole while longer after his release in order to block Hamilton from being able to qualify.

I'm saying there was no inequality in any of the races so yes I would love to see some proof to back up the assertions being made that McLaren did not give Alonso equal machinery or opportunity to win.

I´m referring Alonso staying in the pits to make sure Hamilton would not make the time.

I love both guys and i don´t think any of them was personally involved here but it was clear someone wanted to sabotage Hamilton in Hungary qualifying.

[myurr]

I´m referring Alonso staying in the pits to make sure Hamilton would not make the time.

I love both guys and i don´t think any of them was personally involved here but it was clear someone wanted to sabotage Hamilton in Hungary qualifying.

That was 100% Alonso and his trainer.

[FakeAlonso]

Look at the video I posted. Is official FIA review.

Can't see anything there where Hamilton ruined Alonso's lap. He's a few hundred metres ahead of him on the track at the point Alonso was over driving, ran wide, and started flapping his arms around.

He didn't give Alonso track position so Hamilton got to run first rather than second, that is all. It was naughty but didn't ruin Alonso's lap, and Alonso should have been adult enough to let the team deal with it.

Not the imagies do not match th words of the FIA narrator.

Regarding blackmailing according to a qucik search it appears that Alonso was asking Deniss not to favor or make nr 1 Hamilton.."otherwise he will hand to FIA emails that prove that" Ok it looks like a "white" blackmail that can be justified BUT you are missing the point that .... Ron is favoring and treating HAM a nr 1 while officially claiming we have no nr 1 driver. Thats why ALonso said that he would show to FIA the emails.

[xpensive]

Think Scheckter and Villeneuve in 1979, Stewart and Cevert 1973, and finally Andretti and Peterson in 1978,
then tell me who got it right?

[myurr]

Think Scheckter and Villeneuve in 1979, Stewart and Cevert 1973, and finally Andretti and Peterson in 1978,
then tell me who got it right?

Depends if winning the WDC is 'getting it right' or if a fair race is 'getting it right'. We'll never see eye to eye on this as I value winning on merit above winning at all costs.