Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[bhall]

While I'm not quite ready to don an aluminum hat and start howling at a conspiratorial moon, I do think the last couple of years have been peculiar. The Pirellis seem to wildly accentuate the very characteristics that control tires were introduced to eliminate.

What gives?

[xpensive]

so the tyres are very delicate in how to use and exploit them.
...
Speaking of operating windows :
In each and every race now one or two teams have found the sweet spot in the race and funny every time it was a different one....That´s not matching with experience and knowledge gained....you would expect as time goes on more and more people finding the area where you need to be and the teams eeking closer and closer to the optimum.
...

This is really the strange part, it would seem to be logical that grandees like McLaren, RBR Ferrari and Mercedes should be at an advantage the more difficult it is to find that elusive tyre "sweet-spot". But what do we get, an F1 retiree, a French rookie and a Venezuelan pay-driver making it work for two far less financed and staffed teams?

[mx_tifoso]

I think that sooner or later there will be a few teams who are constantly understanding these tyres. Let's not overreact just yet, methinks.

[xpensive]

I think that sooner or later there will be a few teams who are constantly understanding these tyres. Let's not overreact just yet, methinks.

Don't forget Frank Williams' 70th birthday and Alonso's home-race, Karthikeyan on pole in India perhaps?

[mx_tifoso]

Yup, and why Massa lives in Monaco, so he will get a win both there and in Brazil, perhaps?

But really, I'm definitely waiting a few more weekends before I make any serious judgements. As I've said before, I can't help but be pleased. This is something that we had been hoping would happen for a long time now, and when it finally does, it isn't appreciated.

With predictable tyres we would probably have a typical one or two horse race, methinks.

[marcush.]

I don´t buy this ,especially when :
Mclaren AND Red bUll state they have not gained anything from testing and promptly they get the fitting answer in the next race completely drowned into the midfield..

is all this just random ,chances what have you or is it a system?

To me the pattern is emerging that every weekend some people get a considerable edge and this according to the current needs in the championship,keeping it close and unpredictable.
Mateschitz has voiced his concerns and say what ,we will see RB to the fore again the next weekend...?
Or do you think Williams is getting better attention after committing to Mr.Ecclestones plans ?
Well Schumi needs a win now as well .....
After all this stuff will devalue formula 1 no matter if it is all a plan or the tyre situation is really as complicated as we are made to believe.

In the ol days there was one guy who simply had a hand for qualy tyres -Ayrton Senna .He could exploit those to the extremes....but todays we got a new hero of the tyre usage every other weekend...

[horse]

This is really the strange part, it would seem to be logical that grandees like McLaren, RBR Ferrari and Mercedes should be at an advantage the more difficult it is to find that elusive tyre "sweet-spot". But what do we get, an F1 retiree, a French rookie and a Venezuelan pay-driver making it work for two far less financed and staffed teams?

I wonder if this comes down to flexibility? Think about it, McLaren, Red Bull, will come with very predefined, calculated and sim tested packages for all of these races under a belief that they only need adjust small margins on the setup. Perhaps the smaller (or less confident) teams have bigger setup windows, more options, that allow them to tune the cars better on the weekend?

So, I guess I am describing over-reliance on simulation, which is entirely possible given the lack of predictability in the tires.

[xpensive]

A Wiiliams, a Lotus and a before this race considered hopeless Ferrari, all speeding away from BOTH McLaren and RBR.

On the same tyres? Not in this lifetme!

[horse]

Well, the regulations have narrowed the field, definitely. So control of the tyres will have increased in relative importance, anyway, now that blowing quality has become less of a factor.

Then look at the two exhaust choices - towards the tyres and outer diffuser - or away from the tyres and through the beam wing. The latter choice is used by Lotus and they are consistent, but never the fastest. I think most of the winners (Mercedes is the exception) use the "outboard" exhaust idea, which seems to give extra speed but possibly hinders control of tire degradation.

So maybe there is also a choice between consistency and performance from the tyres with these two distinct exhaust solutions? Do you want to win some of the time, or finish third all of the time?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Raikkonen: Refuelling ban has bigger impact on racing than tyres

Kimi Raikkonen says that too much has been made of the impact of tyres on the racing this year - and thinks that it is the ban on refuelling that is playing a huge factor in shuffling up the order as well.

The competitiveness of the F1 field this year has meant elements like tyres are playing a bigger role in the outcome of races, with Pirelli having faced criticism that its products have now become too important in defining results.

However, Raikkonen is not convinced that Pirelli should have been singled out as the key element – because he reckons that the ban on refuelling is a big contributing factor too.

"I don't think the nature [of F1] is different because of that," Raikkonen told Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat about the impact of Pirelli.

"It's because of the amount of the fuel on board. I don't think there would be that much problem with these tyres, if we would race with 50 or 60 kilos, when we start.

"Previously the pitstops were made usually after every 20 laps, while we had less fuel. I think it would have been the same situation with Michelins and Bridgestones if we would have this much fuel as we have now.

"These tyres are good in qualifying: they have a good grip and all in all they are good tyres."

Refuelling was banned at the start of the 2010 season that witnessed four different winners in the first five races, and produced a four-way championship finale in Abu Dhabi.[/i]


Link

[bhall]

With all due respect to Raikkonen, this is his first year in F1 without refueling. So, his comments on the matter probably ought to be taken with a grain or two of salt.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

With all due respect to Raikkonen, this is his first year in F1 without refueling. So, his comments on the matter probably ought to be taken with a grain or two of salt.

Yeah agreed. Wish I had seen this link before I posted it. This is a much better article on the tyres. Mercedes Bob Bell, Jenson Button & others discuss the tyres and their issues in 2012

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/stor ... CMP=chrome

[myurr]

With all due respect to Raikkonen, this is his first year in F1 without refueling. So, his comments on the matter probably ought to be taken with a grain or two of salt.

Yeah agreed. Wish I had seen this link before I posted it. This is a much better article on the tyres. Mercedes Bob Bell, Jenson Button & others discuss the tyres and their issues in 2012

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/stor ... CMP=chrome

Raikkonen makes a very good point though. The setup of the car is being asked to work through a wide variety of loads as the weight of the car is varying by nearly 25% throughout the race as the fuel load is burnt off. During the final stints the Pirelli tyres actually look very durable and last for a good long while. It's during the opening stints that they are burning out quickly when the fuel levels are at their highest.

[Jersey Tom]

Not sure I agree with the fuel load being the smoking gun. How does that amount of load compare to how much downforce the car generates? How does that variation in load with burnoff compare to how many thousands of pounds more or less downforce you have in a high speed or low speed corner?

F1 tires have always had the requirement of working through a wide load range by virtue of aero alone.

[bhall]

It's not that I don't think fuel load is a factor; obviously, it is. I should have said that I think Raikkonen's view is probably not representative of F1 drivers in general. Most have had 2+ seasons to figure it out, whereas Raikkonen is approaching only his sixth race.

(And could you please let the F2012 know that it's supposed get better as it gets lighter? For some reason, it never got the message.)

F1 is weird.