Alternative to Canopies/Windscreens/Front Roll Hoops

[safeaschuck]

Following on from this article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18104886

It seems that the most effective solution for protecting drivers heads from debris impacts would be to have a non transparent shield/windscreen or completly revised front structure with visual information delivered to the driver via a Head Up Display which would replace the missing part of the field of vision. Alternatly, maybe preferably a complete augmentation could involving multiple camera's and a display integrated into the drivers visor.

The additional benefits of such a system are the ability to enhance the information available to the driver i.e.:
1.Enhanced light levels in low light situation
2.Ability to activly manage overly lit sitiations
3.Integration of steering wheel delivered information, revs, shift points etc
4.Integration of additional information, tyre pressure, temperatures, fuel level, fuel consumption and predicted remaining range, Kers charge level, DRS zone notification, lap timing, gap to car in front/behind, race order, pit communications delivered additionally in text/visual form.
(clearly not all at the same time, but a in a customisable ''on demand' format)
5.Additonal external views, negating the need for rear view mirrors and covering areas previously considered 'blind spots'
6.Greater flexibilty of front end design of cars
7.Potential R&D platform for roadcar crossover technology (also maybe autonomous/semi automnomous cars, google it, it so hot right now )
8.No ugly front roll hoop

The drawbacks, as far as I can see would be:
1. Cost
1. Weight
1. Feasabilty (including ability of existing display technology to fully replicate natural vision. or do get close enough so as not to cause any impediment to the driver)
2. Glare (in the case of HUD) affecting ability to see the display.
3. Driver disorentation (camera's not being able to be mounted or possibly moved/rotated in the same position or about the same axes as the drivers head would be)
4. System failure leading to effective operatinoal blindness
5.The myriad of pschological connections made by sports stakeholders (including fans) of natural light directly entering the drivers eyes and this being fundamental to them performing their role.

The first 3 are all grouped together and could be argued to death should anyone desire, however this is Formula 1, everything about it was once deemed impossible on one of these 3 grounds at some point in the past.
For the purposes of this discussion lets assume this is in the regs for 2014 and these obstacles will be overcome, or, in the case of cost and weight, will be mitigated to the greatest possible degree.
Number 2 seems to suggest a visor display would be best.
Number 3, to me, a relative layman, could be overcome by taking the video captured from a pair of camera's (wide spaced?) and processing/altering it to display the information that would be displayed at the point the drivers head/eyes occupy.
Number 4: Many Failures on racing cars can cause safety issues, flying tyres and suspensions parts for instance. This safety issue, whilst potentially very serious, is just a numbers game. Can the system be made sufficintly reliable that it is safer to use it than not use it.
Number 5: What I think will be the main, if subconcious reason people object to this idea. Come on folks, they are already remotly flying warplanes. The remotely controlled warplane also brings me to the unlikely but undeniably possible endgame of a move in this direction - removing the drivers from the cars completly.
It's not something I'd want to see, but it would instantly solve any driver safety problems and allow car development to procced in some radical new ways. As we have seen time and again in this sport, nostalgia dosen't get you on the podium, and if you try and resist change for too long, you become obsolete.

So come on, what have you got, shoot me down, I'm fully prepared for it

[Lycoming]

The most effective solution is a meter thick concrete wall, but its not the most practical.

I don't like fancy heads up displays, especially if they are being used to augment field of vision. Its a pretty unnecesary cost and complexity, and another critical thing that will probably fail.

There's a lot of info that the driver does not need to be able to see. At some point, its just adding distractions. Revs, gear, time delta, usable KERS remaining, DRS activation and maybe speed are really all you need.

Nobody wants to see autonomous cars racing each other. If they did, the likes of Prodromou would be the real superstars of the sport earning millions in sponsorships. People like racing drivers as personalities.

To be honest, just use the canopy they tested, or make them like closed LMP cars. At least we know that works, those guys have some horrific accidents partly due to their lack of downforce. Everything else is fluff. For what it costs, it adds nothing of value.

[N12ck]

I suggested a simple MP4-4/ M23 style mini windshield, I know the conclusions accepted were that non transparent options were the best, but I really don't feel like that will 'look' like f1 and wouldn't look great. My solution wasn't a canopy, was a simple mini windshield.
Problems are:
Possible warping of vision affecting drivers vision


Nick

[Lycoming]

I don't like the mini windshield. If you're going to do something like that, you might as well go all out.

For me, the biggest flaw is that this provides no side protection, which is kind of a big deal considering what happened with schumacher in abu dhabi 2010 and the accident that killed Henry Surtees

[N12ck]

but a forward roll hoop wouldn't supply side protection either, I have done another mockup, but this time of one that looks like the ones tested

[strad]

I find in today's news that Charlie is not only looking at front roll hoop protection but are also looking to protect from flying debris..you know gravel and such.

[MIKEY_!]

which is kind of a big deal considering what happened with schumacher in abu dhabi 2010 and the accident that killed Henry Surtees

extend the screen around the side of the cockpit. The Surtees accident could have been prevented by better wheel tethers.

[Robbobnob]

The Surtees accident could have been prevented by better wheel tethers.

Sadly yes. They doubled the tethers from 1 to 2 per wheel after that incident.

Regarding am augmented display for the drivers, IMO i think that is a great idea. they get to see information that they want to know. Of course there are some drivers who would prefer to leave that to the engineer, but i am sure there would be a few that would like direct feed back so they know exactly how their aggression is or isnt working.

[myurr]

If they're worrying about tyres then couldn't they come up with some system that deflates the tyre if it detaches from the car? Maybe an electrically operated valve or explosive charge that opens / fires when an electrical connection to the car is removed? The system could be armed at the point it is attached to the car and if it detaches then it explosively deflates, stopping the tyre from bouncing down the road or into the spectators (something a canopy does protect against).

Whilst this wouldn't protect against other types of debris there has only been a single accident in the 25 odd years I've been watching F1, that I remember, where something large has fallen off a car and hit another driver causing injury.

For me part of the appeal of F1 is being able to see, and therefore connect with, the drivers which is something a closed canopy removes.

[ESPImperium]

Personally i dislike the idea of a canopy or a roll hoop. Dosnt look right. Safety wise it makes sense, however isn't there supposed to be some sort of danger?

When it comes to suspension design id like to see that become a little more robust to a point for wheels falling off the car as the tethers are being severed from all the carbon. Id like to make the tethers be encased in a strong metallic 12mm diameter tether protector in the wishbones. Id also use this as a pinch point to enforce a rule change where suspension had to be able to be used on either side of the car in order to cut costs.

However a change in rules for the wheels i think could be enforced as well, a change from 13.3" diameter wheels to 15" diameter wheels i think would also be good as there would then be less bounce in a tyre.

Im not sure what can be done.

[strad]

however isn't there supposed to be some sort of danger?

I'd say yes but most seem to think not.

[machin]

Here's another option:-

In this a "slanted forward" carbon fibre hoop runs in front of the driver's fore head. The hoop would stop large heavy objects (like wheels) hitting the driver's helmet, without obscuring his view. The hoop could also incorporate the side head protection currently built into the pop out collar. A screen could be built between the hoop and collar to protect against small flying debris. The whole screen and hoop would hinge from its forward edge and out of the way to let the driver out. The top of the driver's helmet would still be "open" so you can see who is who. The hoop would also be a convenient place to mount a forward facing TV camera.

[N12ck]

As requested via email, I have done a mock-up of what it would look like from a drivers point of view the forward roll hoop tested,
credit to JORDI for the steering wheel off the 3d warehouse

[Just_a_fan]

Personally i dislike the idea of a canopy or a roll hoop. Dosnt look right. Safety wise it makes sense, however isn't there supposed to be some sort of danger?

I agree. Both are horrid.

The problem with safety is that F1 is in to the situation of diminishing returns. It can't be 100% safe so long as humans are in the cars and close to the circuit. But those in charge seem to feel it necessary to reduce risk as far as they can.

I have half a thought that this is as much about the FIA putting out the idea of canopies and front roll hoops in the hope that the drivers, teams and fans will say "no, that's not what we want".

[ESPImperium]

Personally i dislike the idea of a canopy or a roll hoop. Dosnt look right. Safety wise it makes sense, however isn't there supposed to be some sort of danger?

I agree. Both are horrid.

The problem with safety is that F1 is in to the situation of diminishing returns. It can't be 100% safe so long as humans are in the cars and close to the circuit. But those in charge seem to feel it necessary to reduce risk as far as they can.

I have half a thought that this is as much about the FIA putting out the idea of canopies and front roll hoops in the hope that the drivers, teams and fans will say "no, that's not what we want".

I have 2 problems with the roll hoop.

1] The hoop will make drivers push the limits more and this will then show up another weakness in F1 safety. And it could also possibly just give the unthinkable to happen. It was 18 years ago that happened.

2] The roll hoop will impair visibility, and thus be counterproductive to what the FIA has been trying to increase for about the past 4 to 5 years now as drivers are now 28mm to 35mm higher than in 2007 seemingly.

If you're gonna make F1 like the Red Bull X2012 you may as well enclose the wheels and then see if you can enter LMP1HY class at Le Mans.