2012 Monaco GP - Monte Carlo

[myurr]

Wrong. The point is moot in your eyes.

You're not obligated to read everything you see. Skip what you will.

Otherwise, recognize that tires are used at every race. So, it's only natural that the subject will come up in more than one area.

So you believe that despite the team having a good baseline setup with the tyres, and Alonso's consistent performances in the races, that they're still producing such a huge variance in pace that you cannot judge aero upgrades at all?

Would you also care to justify your claim that the tyres are just a random lottery with no skill involved? You ran away from a debate on this in the appropriate thread, maybe we'll have more luck here.

Finally would you also care to comment on how quickly threads get polluted if people start repeating the same posts across multiple threads?

[raymondu999]

It's been a while since we saw a proper mistake there IMO. I'd watch out for the Massenet/Casino complex more myself, and the tunnel. We saw in 2010 and 2011 that if you were on the dust in those places, it's bye bye baby.

A proper mistake there caused a red flag last year

Fair point - though that was more to some drivers on older rubber making mistakes and several lunge overtakes into Tabac etc.

[raymondu999]

Wrong. The point is moot in your eyes.

You're not obligated to read everything you see. Skip what you will.

Otherwise, recognize that tires are used at every race. So, it's only natural that the subject will come up in more than one area.

bhallg - while we acknowledge tyres are used at every race, discussion regarding the gain from understanding of the tyres or lack thereof is quite a generic matter and not specific to the Monaco Grand Prix. If there was something specific you'd like to bring up about the 2012 Pirellis and their use in Monaco - I don't think most would have an issue about you bringing that up here.

[bhall]

I didn't run away from a debate. I stopped participating in a discussion in which we share zero common ground. There's nothing I can say that will make you see my side, just as there's nothing you can say that will make me see yours.

It is what it is. You like this racing; I don't. Our views will always be colored by that dynamic. So, why argue about it?

Moving on... Ray, I did make a point about these tires regarding this race. I said that I expect heavy marbling around the swimming pool and for that area to become very hazardous.

[raymondu999]

Yes the marbling around swimming pool is a Monaco point and I didn't talk about that. I was directing my words on your comment of it being hard to determine which gains are aero and which are tyre setup.

[bhall]

I didn't bring that up. Someone else did. I only responded after two others dismissed the point and justified that by essentially saying, "Because I said so."

[myurr]

It is what it is. You like this racing; I don't. Our views will always be colored by that dynamic. So, why argue about it?

Again I can be swayed if you can provide solid evidence for your position. You made very specific claims about tyre performance being a lottery, i.e. random luck, and that this was widely admitted up and down the pit lane. I tried to demonstrate that neither was true and asked you to provide evidence to back up your claim.

You refused to do so, so I can only conclude that your views are emotionally biased (as you seem to admit because you just don't like this style of racing) or you simply aren't interested in understanding the impact of the tyres as you have already made up your mind.

[bhall]

I'm taking my reply here so as to leave this thread to the race.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

This map begs to differ though:

From Official F1 site



Link

http://www.monaco-formula-1.com/plan_gb/plan.html




http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-informati ... formation/

[raymondu999]

I've just seen another one which calls the fast chicane Piscine 1 and the chicane after that Piscine 2. I guess all we can say is we won't know for sure, and that all the reference sources are consistently inconsistent

[myurr]

I've just seen another one which calls the fast chicane Piscine 1 and the chicane after that Piscine 2. I guess all we can say is we won't know for sure, and that all the reference sources are consistently inconsistent

I guess this is why people within the teams use turn numbers instead of names, although they don't always seem able to agree on those either!

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I've just seen another one which calls the fast chicane Piscine 1 and the chicane after that Piscine 2. I guess all we can say is we won't know for sure, and that all the reference sources are consistently inconsistent

Agreed. Back to the original point, I think it's obvious now even with the inconsistencies he was speaking of the faster chicane that is in the "Piscine Area"..

[dren]

Kimi for the win, Schumacher for a podium. Alonso will join them.

[zyphro]

A Schu, Alonso & Kimi podia would be epic.

[oT v1]

Looking forward to Monaco so much!! mainly for a break in Uni exams but also to see how the unfolding drama this season plays out at THE track to win at. Nice site btw!!

Hamilton/Kimi/Alonso

but with the order so changable this season, i wonder if we'll see Vettel or Webber plow into a wall to bring out a safety car when Ricciardo/Vergne's tyres are going off while in the lead (yes still angry at being robbed of a fair race last year)