Delta wing car concept

[wesley123]

We indeed dont know if the Deltawing would be as good or better. Something we would never know either, what if we put the ideas of the Delta wing on a more 'regular' car. Would it be better than the Delta wing? we dont know.

All we know is that the Delta wing was a show to hopefully show racing that without large amounts of drag, power and weight a lot is possible too. The aesthetics of the car were pure show, do you think a regular rectangular car with these ideas would have the same amount of atention? I'm sure it would not.

The Delta wing did, although it didnt perform quite to expectations, show us a lot. It might not been as fast or where it was expected to be, but it had shown that you do not need 1000hp to make a fast car. I had been sceptical for a long time about this car, and I am still about its looks, but they sure did show me, and probably others, what can be done better in the current environment.

[RacingManiac]

Hoping to avoid an argument, but I think what the weekend told us was that the Deltawing wasn't that bad, but what it didn't actually confirm is whether it is as good or any better than a rectangular car. The car specs (power:weight, power:drag and downforce:weight) suggest that it would be somewhere between LMP1 and LMP2 (and this was also the claim of the Deltawing team) in the event the car was actualy circualting at a pace at the back of the LMP2 lineup...

Now I know there was some talk of driving to a pre-determined ACO lap time, but this just proves my point; we don't KNOW that the deltawing is actually as good as a rectangular car or not.....

Agreed, any comparison really is apple to orange. It was a valiant effort in getting any race car up and running in a short amount of time and limited budget. Especially one that is as different as this one. But outside of that there is no real scientific conclusion to be drawn if this is better or worse than how the status quo of doing things. It did at least show that the concept works as far as making a car go around corner....Good for Nissan, Michelin and Panoz for supporting the project though.

[FW17]

I do not know what the budget of the LMP1 or LMP2 guys where, but am sure that they all had put in more money into it than what delta wing had.

This is to be compared as
1) a rectangular with years and years of research and development +
2) cost of production of current car +
3) cost of running this car

against the delta wing which had all three from a budget of the last two.

The cost of going racing is also cheaper in a delta wing rather than a rectangular car.

A straight comparison would be 1.6 L engined car was capable of doing a 3.30's lap with fraction of the cost. That was the purpose of the deltawing and they nailed it.

[myurr]

Not to take anything away from the Delta wing (I'm actually a fan and hope it sees much more running - nothing like a bit of ingenuity in a Burt Rutan counter-intuitive kinda way) but it's 'relatively' easy to get to a reasonable level of performance but becomes exponentially harder and harder to extract the last ounces of performance. To drag your way all the way up to the front of the grid takes huge budgets and work for relatively little, think double the budget for a couple of percent performance increase!

So it's not that unexpected for the Delta wing to get good performance even given the resources they have had. And with a huge budget they probably could have managed to get exceptional performance out of the car. Still it's great to be able to show the naysayers up, even if just a little bit.

[RacingManiac]

I do not know what the budget of the LMP1 or LMP2 guys where, but am sure that they all had put in more money into it than what delta wing had.

This is to be compared as
1) a rectangular with years and years of research and development +
2) cost of production of current car +
3) cost of running this car

against the delta wing which had all three from a budget of the last two.

The cost of going racing is also cheaper in a delta wing rather than a rectangular car.

A straight comparison would be 1.6 L engined car was capable of doing a 3.30's lap with fraction of the cost. That was the purpose of the deltawing and they nailed it.

Compared to what though? They were give a performance target and they hit it. Yes that is correct and no argument there. But no one else is doing the same thing with the same premise but with a different solution. No one is making light of their effort, which is considerable. But at the same token they are not "competing" with anyone. It is no more valid of a statement than to say a LMP1 car is better than a GT car as it runs 40 sec a lap faster. Bowlby's triumph here is he knows something that will work, he knows the physics behind it will work. And now he proves it in front of everyone's eyes that it works. Yes the cost is low and they were running great lap times, but its the diminishing return that will really drive up the cost. You can buy a LMP2 car, that is currently cost capped to whatever amount(say 500k, I think its actually cheaper), and they will run a 3:38 in qualifying(pole time for P2 this year), The pole sitting P1 Audi ran a 3:23.8, about 14 sec faster, which is only 7%, and how much more money does R18 eTron cost? We don't know what another car can do given the same kind of rule that DW runs...

This comparison would be valid in DW's original purpose, as a replacement Indycar. As they are given some goal of some speed at Indy, and some safety requirement, but everything else is open, and if they managed to hit the same specified envelope and whatnot, then you can actually draw some conclusion comparing to Dallara, Swift or whatever. But in the LMP setting you are actually comparing with cars on different restriction, which makes the whole comparison aspect moot.

[FW17]

Equally unfortunate was the early end to the Delta Wing's promising debut. The Nissan-powered prototype Delta Wing qualified comfortably in the middle of the field and ran well in the race until it was pushed off the track and into the crash barriers by the remaining Toyota. Satoshi Motoyama tried to repair the car and get it back to the pits but the Delta Wing was too badly damaged to continue.

"I had such a great time driving this car and I've loved working with Marino (Franchitti), Michael (Krumm) and the entire team," Motoyama said. "We have really shown what the future of sportscar racing could look like–ultra efficient. I really hope I can get the opportunity to drive the car again because we really do have unfinished business. I am certain the car would have run for a long time if not for the contact."

Added Krumm: "It's a sad way to finish the race because the car was really running strong. I had a couple of issues at the start of my time in the car, but my last two stints were really strong and felt great."

Delta Wing designer and motivator Ben Bowlby was disappointed with the result but delighted with the car's performance and the huge interest in the project from other competitors, fans and the media.

"First of all, the concept is proven," Bowlby remarked. "At the end of the day, the little Nissan Delta Wing weighing only 500 kilos, powered by the 300 horsepower Nissan DIG-T engine and using Michelin tires was able to run basically with half the fuel and tire consumption and yet show all of the speed of a typical Le Mans prototype.

"We showed an extraordinary and unbelievable concept on the track at Le Mans and the ACO provided us with a perfect setting to showcase the car's capabilities. Hats off to them for inviting us. It has been an incredible opportunity to showcase a car that is truly an innovative experiment.


© LAT USA "In the future let's hope we can bring it back as a race car, and not just an experimental vehicle. We'd love to see a future for cars of this type which are all about high efficiency, low drag and low consumption."

Marino Franchitti has led the Delta Wing's on track development program and is expected to race the car in some ALMS races this summer. Unfortunately because of its accident in the opening hours Franchitti was unable to drive the car in the race but he took considerable confidence from the car's performance in practice and qualifying.

"I was really happy with how the Nissan Delta Wing handled and felt in traffic," Marino commented. "The aero performance seemed consistent no matter what cars we ran with and that is a very important thing in multi class racing. The performance of the Michelin tires was just as we hoped and whether we have rain or shine, I'm confident in the grip we have from the rubber on the road.

"From the moment the car was unloaded off the truck we had a huge amount of interest around our garage. When the pit lane was open for fans everyone seemed to want to come and take a look and a lot of other drivers, team members and mechanics were also very interested too. It's nice that the car has had such a great reception from not only the fans, but also from our fellow competitors."

Nor must we forget that the Delta Wing makes its downforce exclusively through its underwing and aerodynamic shape without any external wings. Like spec cars, wings have come to be considered a plague on the sport and everyone has talked vaguely for years about inventing a way to eliminate wings but until the Delta Wing's arrival nobody had seriously tackled the question.

But Bowlby has done it and he was delighted to incorporate some of the thinking that went into the 1981 Eagle-Chevy and its unique 'Boundary Layer Adhesion Technology'. The shape of the Delta Wing's underwing is very similar to the '81 Eagle and it's doubly fascinating that the key controlling element for the Delta Wing's aero load and balance is a Gurney Flap invented forty years ago by Dan Gurney! It's also worth noting that the BLAT Eagle was banned by CART in 1983, surely one of the greatest technical blunders in the recent history of Indy car racing.

Another important element in Bowlby's original Delta Wing concept was utilizing an 'open-source' system to control the development and policing of the car. Bowlby created the Delta Wing not as a spec car but as a car to be built and developed by competing constructors using an open-source system. Two years ago Delta Wing founder Chip Ganassi emphasized one of the longterm goals of the concept.

"We're bringing an open-source way of doing business to the program where multiple manufacturers can be involved," Ganassi said. "Nobody wants a one-make or one-engine series. We want to see competition among car and engine builders so you'll have lots of iterations of the car along the way.

"We hope with the open-source concept we will attract students from all the engineering schools around the world and spark new thought and designs and have a continuing evolution of the revolution. We think what Linux has done can be done in racing."

Bowlby expanded on plans for the Delta Wing's 'open-source' system.


"We're absolutely dead-set against a one-make formula," Bowlby declared. "As we've learned, the equation of cost versus the marketability or sellability of a one-make formula doesn't work. We think there's also a value question in a completely free formula like Formula One. So what's the middle ground?

"The concept that we have come up with over a long period of time with a lot of detailed study is what we are describing as an open-source, open-access development protocol. Delta Wing is not a racing car constructor and that's not our ambition so the fact that we've designed a car means that we're not concerned about the intellectual property within the car. This car has been done for the good of the future of the racing."

Bowlby would like to see every detail and drawing of the Delta Wing available on-line.

"We're going to publish the entire production design," Bowlby related, "including the computer models of the components, the engineering drawings for the manufacture of those components, plus the parts list, the price structure and suppliers--you name it. The opportunity for teams and suppliers to download those things and either quote against manufacturing those parts, or in the case of a team they might chose to manufacture the parts themselves. Our original plan was for all this to be out there and available.

"Having the complete design effectively on a plate means you can also modify the design and submit your design for approval. In the big picture, as long as the design is published it's a part that's fit for racing. So it will allow teams to do what they want to do as long as it's within certain parameters of the regulations. But it's no longer a covert operation. We will share information. We've moved into an information/entertainment phenomenom. It's not a secret. Anybody can get access to the design. They can download it, modify it, submit it, or manufacture it."

Bowlby's concept would require a forward-thinking sanctioning body with the ability to act as the quality control house for all the parts and components.


"There's a lot of detail protocol that we've come up with to make the business model work," Bowlby added. "For example, every part that goes to a race will have to be inspected for quality assurance and conformity. There would be a charge levied for the parts. It won't be a big charge. It'll be enough to sustain the business and that will mean every part will have a unique part number and identifying tag which will allow the tech process to be a very clear and complete black and white process. As long as the parts conform to a published drawing, the car is legal."

It will be intriguing to see of the sport is capable of embracing Bolwby's open-source model. And it will be equally fascinating to see if an open-source system can control the rate of evolution and help reduce development costs.

Clearly the ALMS is the only American racing series capable of adopting the entire Delta Wing concept. Both Don Panoz and Scott Atherton have made it clear in this space and elsewhere that they want the Nissan Delta Wing to compete in as many ALMS races as possible this year. We look forward to hearing confirmation of such a plan as soon as possible.

by Gordon Kirby

[Tommy Cookers]

Interesting stuff !

50+ years ago there were lots of very efficient small-engined cars at LM, surely small engines/small fuel will always produce efficient cars ?
Look up the Nardi ? (Taruffi), also the work of Costin, and some French fellows.

BTW the 'Gurney flap' was invented (and patented) in 1933 or so by some German person, so DG/Douglas Aviation could never get a patent. It's 'only' doing what trimmers (even lengths of cord on trailing edges) were doing on aircraft 100 years ago, all a matter of aerodynamic scale.
'Spoilers' are not spoilers either.

[FW17]

Would Deltawing concept been the death blow to pack racing?

[MadMatt]

Would Deltawing concept been the death blow to pack racing?

I don't see why. Motorcycles races have closer racing than F1. And if you take other series, like DTM or various Cups, its also very close. Making the car smaller would mean more space for others around, I think !

[FW17]

Would Deltawing concept been the death blow to pack racing?

I don't see why. Motorcycles races have closer racing than F1. And if you take other series, like DTM or various Cups, its also very close. Making the car smaller would mean more space for others around, I think !

Actually meant that they may be able to drive close but will not be able to slipstream past each other as the drag from this car is quiet less.

Anyway sad story of the delta wing is no one could even agree on where the crippled car would be sent for repairs
and is still It's garaged in England awaiting, as we all are, some direction.

[machin]

awaiting, as we all are, some direction.

My dream would be a lightweight category (allowing any wheel layout) either instead of, or part of, LMP2... Lower weight/ lower power cars have got to be cheaper to run and the Deltawing proved they can be on the right sort of pace...

[spinmastermic]

Why wasn't the Delta at Goodwood?

[machin]

see WilliamsF1 post above; its still not been fixed from Le Mans apparently....

[FW17]

DeltaWing cleared to race in American Le Mans Series from 2013
By Gary Watkins Monday, September 17th 2012, 19:21 GMT


The revolutionary DeltaWing sportscar that raced at this year's Le Mans 24 Hours has been cleared to compete in next year's American Le Mans Series and the new championship that will result from the merger of the ALMS and Grand-Am in 2014.

The announcement on the future of the DeltaWing-Nissan DW, which achieves LMP2 levels of performance using only half the fuel, came at the same time that it was confirmed that the car would compete in the Petit Le Mans 1000-mile enduro at Road Atlanta, the final round of this year's ALMS.

ALMS boss Don Panoz, who was a managing partner in the Project 56 team that fielded the DeltaWing at Le Mans, said: "The DeltaWing can race in the 2013 ALMS and it is part of the merger agreement for ALMS and Grand-Am.

"Safety and performance standards have to be achieved, but it needs to be reviewed. For 2014, the new series would incorporate Daytona prototypes, Le Mans prototypes, and maybe even a DeltaWing."

Panoz has stated that he intends to build a production run of DeltaWings to compete in the ALMS next season. He aims to have the first production DeltaWing, developed around a new monocoque, up and running in time for next year's Sebring 12 Hours ALMS opener.

The DeltaWing will be driven at Petit by inaugural PlayStation GT Academy winner Lucas Ordonez and former Panoz works driver Gunnar Jeannette. None of the car's drivers from Le Mans, Michael Krumm, Marino Franchitti and Satoshi Motoyama, were available for Petit on October 20.

[RB7ate9]

With any luck, it would be nice to see the DeltaWing make a return to Le Mans in 2013, as I don't think the ALMS is included in the WEC.