Ferrari F2012

[f1316]

Much the same stated here:

"Ferrari will bring further exhaust developments plus changes to the front wing and floor for this weekend's Valencia race, as Tombazis said the team would continue pushing for upgrades at the same rate even now it had caught the frontrunners"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100505

It's interesting to me that Ferrari insist the new exhaust is a version of the original rather than a copy of the McLaren. I don't think this is an exercise in saving face - there's no shame in copying someone else's inovation in F1 these days, they all do it - rather that they are now seeing the kind of results expected from the original design. This would correlate nicely with the pictures posted of increased levels of rake, getting back towards what they were testing at Jerez.

[TheGkbrk]

We may be witnessing a new dream team being created. Ferrari is working very hard and it is the fourth race of the European races and our third significant upgrade package is on its way. Ferrari introduced, big or small, upgrades to its car every single race and they are really paying off now. 2013 and 2014 work is also great, the team is making sure we won't struggle in the next years. I hope the biggest comeback in F1 will continue and we will become champion with Fernando in F1's most legendary season. [-o<

Also a question, will Ferrari bring a totally new version of exhaust to Valencia or it will be an updated version of the Canada spec?

[f1316]

Also a question, will Ferrari bring a totally new version of exhaust to Valencia or it will be an updated version of the Canada spec?

I think everyone would be surprised if it was a new version. The Canada spec exhaust worked very well right out of the box, so they are clearly pleased with the results, but they had very little time to experiment with the setup. I would expect the development of the exhaust to be very subtle, not obviously visible, but there may be subtle changes to the ramp/the angle/the elements on the floor that direct the flow etc.

And maybe they're going to address the worrying phenomenon illustrated in the technical articles, where the exhaust flow jumps out of the channel and heads towards the suspension...

[Ferrari2183]

Much the same stated here:

"Ferrari will bring further exhaust developments plus changes to the front wing and floor for this weekend's Valencia race, as Tombazis said the team would continue pushing for upgrades at the same rate even now it had caught the frontrunners"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100505

It's interesting to me that Ferrari insist the new exhaust is a version of the original rather than a copy of the McLaren. I don't think this is an exercise in saving face - there's no shame in copying someone else's inovation in F1 these days, they all do it - rather that they are now seeing the kind of results expected from the original design. This would correlate nicely with the pictures posted of increased levels of rake, getting back towards what they were testing at Jerez.

I don't think Ferrari are saving face even though it is evident that they've drawn inspiration from McLaren's design but I'm of the opinion that despite it closely resembling the McLaren solution Ferrari have ultimately achieved what they set out to do with their original exhaust in aspirating the air from the radiators as well. In which case Tombazis saying that it is a cousin is rather correct.

[f1316]

Much the same stated here:

"Ferrari will bring further exhaust developments plus changes to the front wing and floor for this weekend's Valencia race, as Tombazis said the team would continue pushing for upgrades at the same rate even now it had caught the frontrunners"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100505

It's interesting to me that Ferrari insist the new exhaust is a version of the original rather than a copy of the McLaren. I don't think this is an exercise in saving face - there's no shame in copying someone else's inovation in F1 these days, they all do it - rather that they are now seeing the kind of results expected from the original design. This would correlate nicely with the pictures posted of increased levels of rake, getting back towards what they were testing at Jerez.

I don't think Ferrari are saving face even though it is evident that they've drawn inspiration from McLaren's design but I'm of the opinion that despite it closely resembling the McLaren solution Ferrari have ultimately achieved what they set out to do with their original exhaust in aspirating the air from the radiators as well. In which case Tombazis saying that it is a cousin is rather correct.

Yes, exactly. And the evidence of that is that they're now able to run the car in the way it was originally tested - i.e. with more rake.

[bhall]

I haven't necessarily seen an increase in rake on the F2012. Then again, rake is by no means the end-all, be-all factor to performance; it's but one component therein.

That the new exhaust seems to be working well isn't really a reason to assume rake can even be increased at this point. One of the problems of the original Acer ducts, aside from baking the rear tires, was inconsistent performance. Given the razor thin performance margins this year, I think targeting exhaust consistency is more reasonable than targeting outright exhaust capability, which has been severely limited by the rules.

Put another way, consistently getting 25% performance is better than sometimes getting 35-40% performance, even if getting only 25% doesn't allow for other potentially beneficial changes. I think the new rear suspension will likely reflect that reality, as it will allow for softer settings - for better traction - without necessitating a big change to ride height.

[.poz]

I don't think Ferrari are saving face even though it is evident that they've drawn inspiration from McLaren's design but I'm of the opinion that despite it closely resembling the McLaren solution Ferrari have ultimately achieved what they set out to do with their original exhaust in aspirating the air from the radiators as well. In which case Tombazis saying that it is a cousin is rather correct.

The two opening over the exhaust exit are too small. I think they are trying to seal the exhaust plume by creating two counter rotating vortex

========> fast air over the bodywork
----------> slow air out of the two small opening
========> fast air from exhaust

[shelly]

I agree. I think the flow exiting from the two small openings above the pipe has a key role in controlling the conada effect (iirc mclaren has the same two openings)

[f1316]

I haven't necessarily seen an increase in rake on the F2012. Then again, rake is by no means the end-all, be-all factor to performance; it's but one component therein.

That the new exhaust seems to be working well isn't really a reason to assume rake can even be increased at this point. One of the problems of the original Acer ducts, aside from baking the rear tires, was inconsistent performance. Given the razor thin performance margins this year, I think targeting exhaust consistency is more reasonable than targeting outright exhaust capability, which has been severely limited by the rules.

Put another way, consistently getting 25% performance is better than sometimes getting 35-40% performance, even if getting only 25% doesn't allow for other potentially beneficial changes. I think the new rear suspension will likely reflect that reality, as it will allow for softer settings - for better traction - without necessitating a big change to ride height.

The pictures on the previous page of this thread seem to show some rake being run. My point was not necessarily that rake in and of itself is the be all and end all for performance, but that it is something they were trying to run on the car in Jerez testing with the original exhaust design. If, with this new exhaust design that is being touted as a development of the original concept, they are able to increase rake, it may point towards Ferrari being able to realise its original design philosophy.

EDIT
They talk about rake here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_JwtOxk ... r#t=15m00s

Not something we don't know, but since we're talking about setup here and, if this is how the car was intended to be setup, it may contribute significantly to performance to be able to realise that.

[Ferrari2183]

I don't think Ferrari are saving face even though it is evident that they've drawn inspiration from McLaren's design but I'm of the opinion that despite it closely resembling the McLaren solution Ferrari have ultimately achieved what they set out to do with their original exhaust in aspirating the air from the radiators as well. In which case Tombazis saying that it is a cousin is rather correct.

The two opening over the exhaust exit are too small. I think they are trying to seal the exhaust plume by creating two counter rotating vortex

========> fast air over the bodywork
----------> slow air out of the two small opening
========> fast air from exhaust

You may be correct but I have a suspicion that the holes above the exhaust are there to aspirate the slow moving air from the radiators. It allows them to run the cooling outlets very near the coke bottle section with little harm to the rear aero of the car.

Who knows? It may achieve both yours and my suspicions.

[bhall]

The pictures on the previous page of this thread seem to show some rake being run. My point was not necessarily that rake in and of itself is the be all and end all for performance, but that it is something they were trying to run on the car in Jerez testing with the original exhaust design. If, with this new exhaust design that is being touted as a development of the original concept, they are able to increase rake, it may point towards Ferrari being able to realise its original design philosophy.

I didn't necessarily mean to imply that you made such an assertion. I just try to develop complete thoughts is all.

The new rear suspension should answer more than a few questions here - hopefully.

[Scalex]

I don't think Ferrari are saving face even though it is evident that they've drawn inspiration from McLaren's design but I'm of the opinion that despite it closely resembling the McLaren solution Ferrari have ultimately achieved what they set out to do with their original exhaust in aspirating the air from the radiators as well. In which case Tombazis saying that it is a cousin is rather correct.

The two opening over the exhaust exit are too small. I think they are trying to seal the exhaust plume by creating two counter rotating vortex

========> fast air over the bodywork
----------> slow air out of the two small opening
========> fast air from exhaust

That's exactly what I meant in my post some pages ago, when these openings where spotted

I thought this was a very interesting factor in the whole equation... May be wrong of course....

[Scalex]

The pictures on the previous page of this thread seem to show some rake being run. My point was not necessarily that rake in and of itself is the be all and end all for performance, but that it is something they were trying to run on the car in Jerez testing with the original exhaust design. If, with this new exhaust design that is being touted as a development of the original concept, they are able to increase rake, it may point towards Ferrari being able to realise its original design philosophy.

I didn't necessarily mean to imply that you made such an assertion. I just try to develop complete thoughts is all.

The new rear suspension should answer more than a few questions here - hopefully.

You certainly mean the new FRONT suspension...

Ok ok, I couldn't resist...

[F1.Ru]

I haven't necessarily seen an increase in rake on the F2012. Then again, rake is by no means the end-all, be-all factor to performance; it's but one component therein................without necessitating a big change to ride height.

In my previous post i post two different picture with different angle of F2012 there uyou can see the amount of rake F2012 sported, though it is a way of creating downforce but to be able to do so you have to make your diffuser work better and thus come the word "sealing the diffuser" and i think that is the aim that Ferrari currently pursuing. It seems that new exhaust is able to seal the diffuser better than the previous version and thus F2012 is having more rake. But i can not sure about the angle and lighting effect.............

[bhall]

I'm well aware of the relationship between exhaust and rake; it feels like we've been talking about it for a decade. I've just yet to see anything that would suggest Ferrari has made any improvements in this area. Fortunately, I don't think it's a big deal at all, because the rules have done a great job of largely neutering exhaust potential.

For comparison's sake, here's a picture (that's not all that great) of the car in Spain. The car's rake then looks very similar to what it is now.