2012 European GP - Valencia

[Mandrake]

Do we know that Pirelli allocate tyres to drivers or teams or if that is under control of the FIA? I'd hope it was the latter...

FIA allocates tyres

That should finish the unnecessary discussion, thanks a lot!

[bhall]

Wow. It seems few are actually bothering to read this stuff. Fair enough.

The FIA would be unwitting accomplices, because all of the tires would be the same.



(As an aside, it's only when we completely ignore other people that problems are created. Just sayin'.)

[raymondu999]

Perhaps, given that the posts don't harbor a direct relevance to the Valencia GP in particular (I know, I'm also guilty of contributing to it) and how some people are not happy with the existence of said posts in the 2012 European GP thread ecosystem, they could be branched out to a separate thread for discussion?

[myurr]

In the face of people throwing daft ideas around there's no harm in showing that it's next to impossible for them to be true. Tends to be a better approach than throwing insults around (not directed at raymondu999 - I'd also like to see the thread cleaned up).

Now that someone has confirmed that the FIA allocate tyres then it would be next to impossible for Pirelli to manipulate the tyres in any way, so until someone can show that this is not the case then hopefully it's the end of the discussion.

[bhall]

Perhaps, given that the posts don't harbor a direct relevance to the Valencia GP in particular (I know, I'm also guilty of contributing to it) and how some people are not happy with the existence of said posts in the 2012 European GP thread ecosystem, they could be branched out to a separate thread for discussion?

I thought of that. However, the tire threads quickly become, frankly, retarded by bias, and I still don't think a thread specifically about tire cheating methodology - "A Guide to Tire Cheating," "Rubber Justice," "The Pirellotteri Ticket," "The 'Y' in 'Tyre' is Actually for 'Y not?'" "Tire Allocation the Sicilian Way," "Pirelli Claims Company Dog Ate Spec Sheets," and so on and so forth - would be a good idea either.

However, it was probably silly of me to assume that since no one is actually accusing anyone of foul play, a discussion of tire cheating prompted by Hembery's poorly timed statement in regard to this race could occur here without much of an issue. It seems no amount of logic will ever defeat "the skimmers."

For that, I'm deeply sorry.

So, I'm just going to throw out a quick recap, and then I'll go back to my corner. (For about the 12th or 13th time, in no way do I think this is actually happening.)

If Pirelli wanted to influence the outcome of a race, they would produce a run of identical tires for the race they wanted to influence. However, the construction for the tires in that production run would be based upon, and optimized for, the specific team/driver Pirelli chose to favor for that race. Such is made possible because of the reams of data Pirelli has for every team/driver. Those identical tires would then be allocated to the teams by the FIA*. On the surface, none of this would appear to be abnormal.

The favoritism comes into play when teams A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, and L are each allocated identical tires from the FIA that are nonetheless optimized for team C. In this manner, the favored team could be different for every race, and because teams are having considerable difficulty figuring out the tires, it's likely that no one would notice those changes. If someone did indeed start asking questions, Pirelli could easily claim natural variance from one production run to another.

Like I've said repeatedly, it's extremely unlikely this is actually happening. That doesn't change the possibility that it could happen, though. (It probably won't. I cannot stress that enough.)

I only mention these things because this is probably the most F1-related fun I'll have while F1 is in Valencia.

* FYI: Tires are produced throughout the season and then allocated by the FIA on a race-by-race basis, i.e. Pirelli doesn't just make a massive batch of tires at the beginning of the season and then hand them over to the FIA.

EDIT: I gave it some attention-grabbers. I want to leave little chance that important points can be easily glossed over.

[Hail22]

Qualifying top 5:

1 - Alonso
2 - Button
3 - Hamilton
4 - Webber
5 - Massa/Schumacher

Race:

1 - Alonso
2- Hamilton
3 - Webber
4- Button
5 - Massa

[myurr]

@bhallg2k - why do you keep perpetuating the very conversation you decry? Let it lie.

[bhall]

@bhallg2k - why do you keep perpetuating the very conversation you decry? Let it lie.

[...] it would be next to impossible for Pirelli to manipulate the tyres in any way, so until someone can show that this is not the case then hopefully it's the end of the discussion.

Consider it done.

[Gridlock]

Eddie Jordan is a prime example of a person who speaks before thinking, however this is overlooked as he's "good tv"

sorry but no. i'd rather listen to Martin Brundle talk technicalities in the sport than this chancer spouting off

While I have no idea what sort of person EJ is, what I do know is that he ran an F1 team for years. That's a very small group of people, and given the nature of F1 it deserves respect in terms of trying to parse what he says.

IE, he knows where the bodies are buried and he knows how it works.

[GrizzleBoy]

I'd agree with that.

[SamH123]

Qualifying

1) VET
2) HAM
3) ALO
4) MSC
5) MAL
6) GRO

(6 different teams hmmm)

Race

1) VET
2) GRO
3) HAM

[Tim.Wright]

I will thow one thing into this debate and say that it is absolutely impossible, with current technology and within a two week timefram, to delibrately produce a tyre that favours a different team each race.

Its hard enough to develop one tyre for one team properly over the course of a season.

Tim

[gato azul]

I will thow one thing into this debate and say that it is absolutely impossible, with current technology and within a two week timefram, to delibrately produce a tyre that favours a different team each race.

Its hard enough to develop one tyre for one team properly over the course of a season.

Tim

not having a go at you Tim - far from

but I would not be so "sure footed" with such an comment.

If on a Friday during a MotoGP race Michelin's tire techs find a slight compounding alteration will prove advantageous, they can phone the company's C3M operators in Clermont-Ferrand and have new tires shipped Saturday for Sunday's race..........

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.....
Michelin's C3M process, however, seems quite similar to Pirelli's MIRS system, which was revealed a couple of years ago. Both Michelin's C3M and Pirelli's MIRS are extremely compact and portable, allowing optimum use of materials as well as precise application for a finished tire of shape, size and balance unavailable via more traditional tire-making techniques. Pirelli also claims an astonishing increase in production speed: three minutes from compound to finished tire.

Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto ... z1ySZaONq5

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C3M will allow Michelin to build tires virtually anywhere using equipment that fits into a semitrailer and requires nothing more than access to water and electricity.

Originally devised to allow the company to build tires on-site for auto manufacturers, Michelin recently began producing many of its MotoGP--and SBK-spec--tires using C3M technology because it allows tire engineers more control over the manufacturing process and results in a better tire.

Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/featu ... z1ySbP2zDd

That was back in 2008/9, and I seem to remember that Michelin was toying with the idea, both for F1 and MotoGP at the time, to produce "tyres on demand" at the track, for a race weekend, to be able to take into account the latest track & weather conditions.
Some claim, that this was the main reason MotoGP went to a single supplier at the time.

[raymondu999]

Just for perspective, the quickest time in FP1 2011 for Valencia was Mark Webber with a 1:40.403

[Mr Alcatraz]

Button Locking "Box Box"