2012 European GP - Valencia

[beelsebob]

Right, as I said earlier, I was pulling numbers out of my ass... But the point is, McLaren are sitting on the data, and made that decision. It's likely therefore that the data they have says it gains them sufficient time that it's worth having, and hence that the actual rate is an order of magnitude higher than 1:11.

I don't doubt that. Their problem is whatever odds they think they're playing, they just lost.

Well sure... everything is 20/20 in hindsight... doesn't mean the gamble wasn't worth taking or that McLaren was missmanaged to come to that conclusion.

[morefirejules08]

Hamilton earned his position in the wall. I can't stand Moldy Maldy but, he had position on Hamilton.

I can only assume you were watching a different race to everybody else

[myurr]

@Diesel - the rational will be that Schumacher wasn't still running in Barcelona so couldn't serve his penalty.

Doesn't stop it being bull though, as the drive through is hardly a penalty at all for Maldonado. Also Hamilton shouldn't have to back out of any manoeuvre because the other driver cannot be trusted to race fairly. That's a sign that the other driver doesn't belong in F1. Can't believe I was defending Igor earlier in the season, he just has no class at all.

[beelsebob]

Hamilton earned his position in the wall. I can't stand Moldy Maldy but, he had position on Hamilton.

I can only assume you were watching a different race to everybody else

Yep... he had position on hamilton, if by "position" you mean "off the race track".

[andartop]

This is probably going to be considered an inflammatory post, but watching the Maldonado-Hamilton incident again and again and reading through all the heated comments in this forum, as well as the two drivers' comments, I am more confused than enlightened.
What exactly was Maldonado punished for? Re-entering the track or causing an avoidable collision? How far does the rule regarding leaving a car's width on the outside go? Is it only for the entry to a corner or does it apply to the exit as well? What was Senna penalized for? Is there any relevance between the two incidents?

[cirrusflyer]

So what caused Vettel's engine failure then?

suspected alternator, same as Grosjean

Extreme engen mapping finaly payed dividends
And renoults engens, specialy Sebs, dont sounds strange.

[foxmulder_ms]

Here is the reason for Maldonado: "failed to rejoin the track in a safe manner."

I found the penalty really mild though It should have been some grid penalty for the next race.

Really good race for Alonso but I think Ferrari is still slower than Mclaren and redbull. I even think Lotus is faster than Ferrari. My prediction for teams for the end of the season is RB>McLaren>Lotus>Ferrari

[marcush.]

first time Schumacher had aq "friend" as driving stewart in salo .. ..seriously he was right ...and deserves to retain those points..
if mal´do was schumacher he´d be penalised for three races or something...

[Waywardism]

I don't agree with Pierce's point of view exactly, this was 100% Malfunctionado's fault.

I do feel Hamilton was stupid to defend so aggressively though. I admire his racing spirit but there was no way on earth he was going to hold onto 3rd with the state of his tires, 5th place was 6-7 seconds behind them at that point. He could have been 2nd in the championship, 11pts behind Alonso. Now he's in danger of losing touch.

[beelsebob]

This is probably going to be considered an inflammatory post, but watching the Maldonado-Hamilton incident again and again and reading through all the heated comments in this forum, as well as the two drivers' comments, I am more confused than enlightened.
What exactly was Maldonado punished for? Re-entering the track or causing an avoidable collision?

Re-endering the track is not illegal, but re-endering it through the side of another car is both causing an avoidable collision, and failing to reenter the track in a safe manner – he was punished for the latter.

How far does the rule regarding leaving a car's width on the outside go? Is it only for the entry to a corner or does it apply to the exit as well?

It applies only on the entry.

What was Senna penalized for?

He was punished for Deliberate Crowding of another car beyond the limits of the track. Personally, I have no idea why.

Is there any relevance between the two incidents?

No

Just for reference re Igor's penalty – the last person to fail to rejoin the track in a safe manner was Lewis Hamilton, and his penalty was a drive through penalty, applied after the race, and hence 20 seconds added to his time. Of course, when Hamilton did it, he didn't hit anyone, and didn't plant them in the wall.

[i70q7m7ghw]

@Diesel - the rational will be that Schumacher wasn't still running in Barcelona so couldn't serve his penalty.

Doesn't stop it being bull though, as the drive through is hardly a penalty at all for Maldonado. Also Hamilton shouldn't have to back out of any manoeuvre because the other driver cannot be trusted to race fairly. That's a sign that the other driver doesn't belong in F1. Can't believe I was defending Igor earlier in the season, he just has no class at all.

I understand that, but it's not an excuse. The FIA need to standardise the penalties. Shumacher's race at Monaco was destroyed by that penalty, that really shouldn't have been the case. Every race weekend should have a line drawn under it.

I'm happy with time penalties, I think they should reflect the severity of the incident. So you could go from 20 seconds, 40 seconds all the way to full DSQ. Maldonado in my opinion should have had a 40 second time penalty.

Perhaps as well we need a system where drivers essentially collect 'marks' against them for each incident, and when they hit say 3 marks they get a 10 place grid penalty for the following race. This way even if a driver is involved in an incident of his causing that puts him out of the race, making it impossible to apply a penalty, he would still collect the 'mark'. If a driver collects 5-6 marks it's a race ban etc. etc.

[SeijaKessen]

20s penalty for Malfunctionado. Senna 10th. Not quite the rest-of-season ban I was hoping for.

If Bruno doesn't get hit with that BS penalty, with Igor's penalty he probably would have finished a few spots higher IMO.

[beelsebob]

For those wondering, where I got the exact details of what each person was penalised for – the F1 Media Centre on fia.com contains all the documentation from stewards reports etc. It used to be a bit crap at keeping up with all the reports, but they seem to have got better with their new site.

[Waywardism]

Perhaps as well we need a system where drivers essentially collect 'marks' against them for each incident, and when they hit say 3 marks they get a 10 place grid penalty for the following race. This way even if a driver is involved in an incident of his causing that puts him out of the race, making it impossible to apply a penalty, he would still collect the 'mark'. If a driver collects 5-6 marks it's a race ban etc. etc.

I was thinking something along the same lines, at the moment all previous sins seem to be forgotten.

[beelsebob]

Perhaps as well we need a system where drivers essentially collect 'marks' against them for each incident, and when they hit say 3 marks they get a 10 place grid penalty for the following race.

We already have that system – if drivers get 3 reprimands within the space of 10 races they get a more severe penalty.

What we don't have is that for more severe penalties.