2012 European GP - Valencia

[andartop]

Re-endering the track is not illegal, but re-endering it through the side of another car is both causing an avoidable collision, and failing to reenter the track in a safe manner – he was punished for the latter.

I would have thought he should have been penalized for causing an avoidable collision.

What was Senna penalized for?

He was punished for Deliberate Crowding of another car beyond the limits of the track. Personally, I have no idea why.

Neither do I. What was different then between Senna crowding the Sauber beyond the limits of the track, Hamilton crowding Maldonado on the exit of the right hander or Rosberg crowding Hamilton in Bahrain? Why is the first instance considered "crowding" and the other two not? Here lies the problem in the definitions of the rules in my opinion: "deliberate crowding beyond the limits of the track" does not consider whether there is a wall or not on the outside, so this should be irrelevant.

Just for reference re Igor's penalty – the last person to fail to rejoin the track in a safe manner was Lewis Hamilton, and his penalty was a drive through penalty, applied after the race, and hence 20 seconds added to his time. Of course, when Hamilton did it, he didn't hit anyone, and didn't plant them in the wall.

When was that? Last time I remember was Hamilton overtaking Rosberg in Bahrain by going off track and re-entering as if nothing happened. He did not get a penalty for that. Rosberg was investigated and found not guilty.

[beelsebob]

Re-endering the track is not illegal, but re-endering it through the side of another car is both causing an avoidable collision, and failing to reenter the track in a safe manner – he was punished for the latter.

I would have thought he should have been penalized for causing an avoidable collision.

What was Senna penalized for?

He was punished for Deliberate Crowding of another car beyond the limits of the track. Personally, I have no idea why.

Neither do I. What was different then between Senna crowding the Sauber beyond the limits of the track, Hamilton crowding Maldonado on the exit of the right hander or Rosberg crowding Hamilton in Bahrain? Why is the first instance considered "crowding" and the other two not? Here lies the problem in the definitions of the rules in my opinion: "deliberate crowding beyond the limits of the track" does not consider whether there is a wall or not on the outside, so this should be irrelevant.

Just for reference re Igor's penalty – the last person to fail to rejoin the track in a safe manner was Lewis Hamilton, and his penalty was a drive through penalty, applied after the race, and hence 20 seconds added to his time. Of course, when Hamilton did it, he didn't hit anyone, and didn't plant them in the wall.

When was that? Last time I remember was Hamilton overtaking Rosberg in Bahrain by going off track and re-entering as if nothing happened. He did not get a penalty for that. Rosberg was investigated and found not guilty.

That was Hungary last year. The return to the track you're referring to in Bahrain was in no way unsafe.

[marcush.]

schumacher and Rosberg top 3 in terms of laptimes..so the race pace was not THAT bad...

[Ganxxta]

schumacher and Rosberg top 3 in terms of laptimes..so the race pace was not THAT bad...

Maybe because they were pushing with pretty new tires at the end of the race while all others had their stop during the safetycar and so had old tires?

[marcush.]

no actually not.At least schumachers pace was qúite good actually ..

[Ganxxta]

I believe you cause I actually don't have the numbers

Anyway, what happened to Rosberg during the race? It seems I missed something...

[Mr.S]

Everyone did 2 Stops more or less. I think MSC's first Stint was Extra-ordinary. He did brilliant laps to keep up within 4s off Rosberg after 20 odd laps with those DUD HARD tyres which neither had pace nor durability. Nobody showed great pace with the Hards. I thinK MSC is the only one who Showed great pace.

The safety car I felt compromised his strategy a bit as I felt a lot of the front running teams might have tried a 3 Stopper. Had the safety car come out say 12-13 laps after say just when MSC was about to pit it would have worked brilliantly for Michael.

[andartop]

No, but it could still be interpreted as Rosberg "crowding Hamilton beyond the confines of the race track". Race stewards seem to interpret the same rules completely differently, punishing (or not) at will. F1 looks less like an organized sport and more like the Wild West. Drivers seem to completely disregard basic rules, and who can blame them if what they see is that there is a 50-50 chance they might get punished or not whenever there is an incident, even if they are not the one at fault!

[i70q7m7ghw]

I see your point andartop.

I think in the case of Maldonado Vs. Hamilton it's clear that Maldonado tried to rejoin the track using the same piece of tarmac as Hamilton, I honestly don't know what he was expecting to happen. They were fighting for position in a corner, so there is a clear racing line and Hamilton had that racing line, no real crowding going on here, Maldonado should have conceded.

In the case of Senna it was on a straight, where the racing line is not as clear cut. I do feel however in this case, this was more of a racing incident since the Sauber was not very far alongside Senna if barely.

[fiohaa]

So Maldonado gets a pathetic '20 second penalty' in a race where he already had damage to his car after the incident.

Schumacher gets a 5 place grid drop, after an accident which already ended his race, and which included senna moving in the braking zone.

Schumachers incident in Spain was far more of a racing incident than Maldonados, and yet schumacher got a much worse penalty.

The penalties being dished out and the lack of judgement is worse than football. And these guys have the luxury of data and replays!

on another note - why did schumi have his DRS open anyway? he was infront of webber and not overtaking anyone - i dont understand why it was open in the first place.

[Dragonfly]

One thing which puzzles me is where in the rules it is written that the DRS flap must be closed through an yellow flag zone.
It has always been about slowing down.
An open flap does not necessarily mean the car is moving without slowing down. In some cases just lifting without applying the brake might be enough.
This argument was first applied by the stewards at the previous GP in Spain.
I think someone did not have a deep enough thoughts over the situation.
And in that particular case, judging from the screen capture, it was Webber who didn't slow down and closed the gap to MS's car.

[Guisson]

Did Anyone Noticed That Kimi ..Was Smiling ?

[GrizzleBoy]

Stewards decisions.

Kobayashi - Five place grid penalty.

Vergne - Ten place grid penalty.

Maldonado - Drive through........


Those stewards, you gotta love em.

[mx_tifoso]

Did Anyone Noticed That Kimi ..Was Smiling ?

It was a very special podium. And along with that, Andrea Stella has been a race engineer for all three. Great race on so many levels.

[GrizzleBoy]

Did Anyone Noticed That Kimi ..Was Smiling ?

It was a very special podium. And along with that, Andrea Stella has been a race engineer for all three. Great race on so many levels.

Yeah that was pretty special.

The atmosphere in general for that win was pretty awesome.