Is Vettel overrated? What do you think

[strad]

I never understand why people get so defensive of a certain driver. I tend to be like Dave in that I don't really favor one driver or make over another. It's often as if some poster on a board somewhere has a vested interest in a given driver or car.
I can understand a passionate fan of racing but I don't understand being so enamoured that they're willing to fight. And I don't just mean on the boards..I have seen physical fights break out over a slight to a driver...I question how anyone can have so much of their own ego wrapped up in some guy they don't know or a company they have no interest in.
My own feeling to be on topic is that Vettel is too immature and makes too many mistakes, but jeeeez this is based on what I see and hear on the TV..for all I know I have completely misjudged him and would really like him if we could know one another.
Maybe we should wind up like this?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/quee ... 9hGBdZ7m0K

[raymondu999]

As ever, his incredibly upbeat self. http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/27313.html

Actually, quite interestingly, Mark Blundell, on Twitter, has tipped Seb "may pull it together for a Monza win." A repeat performance of 2008 for Sebby? The straightline speed advantage seems to not support that idea though.

[rfs]

Actually, quite interestingly, Mark Blundell, on Twitter, has tipped Seb "may pull it together for a Monza win." A repeat performance of 2008 for Sebby? The straightline speed advantage seems to not support that idea though.

Nah I think the Mclarens, Sutil and Kubica will be fighting for the podium places there.

[747heavy]

another take on the matter:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/08/s ... crash-kid/

A quite balanced and fair assessment IMHO
I agree with it.

[strad]

I guess it will be a question of balance.
Some might overly pull in their horns in an over reaction and hinder themselves that way.
Only time will tell whether he can find that balance of impetuousness and intelligence.

[raymondu999]

I know I might be opening a can of worms, and I hope Tomba and the moderators forgive me for it. The last post happened on September, around after Vettel's absolutely disastrous (and pretty much his fault) crash in Spa 2010 with Button. Since then he's woken himself out of his crash kid title in 2010, and dominated 2011.

I wonder - what do people think nowadays?

[Raptor22]

I think he has shown himself to have the potential to be one of the greats in F1. He has already achieved more than probalby 90% of drivers ever to have entered F1.

[snoop1050]

I think he has shown himself to have the potential to be one of the greats in F1. He has already achieved more than probalby 90% of drivers ever to have entered F1.

he also had one of the most dominant cars in f1 for 2 years running and ive never rated webber than highly

[bhall]

[...]

Since then he's woken himself out of his crash kid title in 2010, and dominated 2011.

I wonder - what do people think nowadays?

It's a complicated subject. The RB7 was a fantastic car, easily on par with the MP4/4 and the F2004. It was so good, in fact, there was virtually no way it could lose. Accordingly, there's no way to deny the substantial wrinkle that adds to any evaluation.

That said, Vettel went out and did exactly what he was supposed to do with it, and that's all you can ever ask of any driver.

I'll put it like this: both Vettel and the RB7 did everything right last year. It was a peerless combination, and both the car and its driver deserved every accolade they received. However, the car impressed me more than the driver.

[raymondu999]

Accordingly, there's no way to deny the substantial wrinkle that adds to any evaluation.

I'm not sure I'm familiar with what you mean here. Could you explain?

[bhall]

I meant, how do you evaluate a driver's performance against the field when the field didn't even stand a chance? As I've said elsewhere, I'd have been loathe to give an abundance of credit to even Jesus Christ if He drove the RB7 to the title on water. It was that good.

However, Vettel did everything he was supposed to do. One can't knock those efforts just because his car was divine.

These things all make any comparisons extremely difficult, if not futile altogether.

[raymondu999]

I guess it's hard to really say anything either way (car vs driver) in F1 though isn't it - for example, Alonso's 2nd place in Barcelona. Some will say that's a racing god that took a bottom-of-Q3 car up to fight for the victory. Others would say that was where the car was supposed to be, and Alonso was just delivering on that. Others would also say that the other car was Maldonado - and Alonso didn't have it in him to even overhaul MALDONADO, of all people. It's all based on how you perceive the car, I guess.

[bhall]

Indeed, where does the influence of the car end and the influence of the driver begin?

I'd say Vettel's body of work is inconclusive at this point given the fact that his career is still very young and he has yet to be challenged with a legitimately bad car.

[raymondu999]

he has yet to be challenged with a legitimately bad car.

I'd call his 2007 and first-half-of-2008 car bad though (if you're talking about being slow/uncompetitive). It wasn't HRT bad, but it's similar to this year's Force India - a car that you had to give every inch to work your way up to the midfield. Or do you mean a car that has handling problems?

Having said that, I think most people only really start paying attention to drivers once they're proven themselves, and so he might have been somewhat anonymous then.

I know I'm guilty of this myself with most drivers - I don't really notice them until they do up a qualifying result (at least) that really perks my ears, or end up on the podium in unlikely circumstances.

Indeed, where does the influence of the car end and the influence of the driver begin?

Yup, I started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10765

Needless to say nobody was able to really fully conclude anything.

[Slife]

If Vettel had the exact same 2010/2011 results in an HRT, would people just stay that HRT is not a bad car?