Ferrari's new carbon ring rings

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dumrick
dumrick
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

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manchild wrote:
F1.com wrote:Ferrari 248 F1- rim shields

Image

Ferrari first introduced these at Imola, to help extract the heat generated by the rear brakes. The lip of the shield separates the hot airflow from the rim walls, helping to stabilise tyre pressure by limiting the effect of the brake heat. In Turkey the concept is pushed further, with a wider lip section reducing the size of the central air vent. This improves air extraction still further by decreasing turbulence generated by airflow close to the wheel. It also slightly improves aerodynamic efficiency in this area.
The rules that state that wheels must be made of a single, homogeneous material are clearly being defied here... this is not a new question, but deeming these rims illegal would be straighforward, much more straightforward and understandable than the mass damper ban...

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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dumrick wrote:Concerning aero devices they state that they cannot move. Now, everybody knows that every material that is subject to loads bends in some way. Therefore, Ferrari and other teams explored the technical verification procedure in order to go AGAINST the spirit of the rules, being WITHIN the allowed tolerances.
And that's not all:
FIA 2006 Regulations wrote:3.17.7 In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.
So it really sums up into: "Bodywork may not move, not even if they pass the tests."

dumrick wrote:
2.5 Novel technologies
Any novel technology not specifically covered by these regulations, but which is deemed permissible by the FIA Formula One Technical Department, will be only be (sic) admitted until the end of the Championship during which it is introduced...
This is something that I really hate. The FIA doesn't anymore looks at the rules as a set of restrictions to what can be done in the cars. They want the interpretation of rules to be freezed forever. They state they will ban any legal new device in the end of the championship it is introduced. If Mosley-like minded fellows were in charge of motorports since the '50's, we would still have cigar-shaped, front-engined, wingless cars with diagonal tyres with conventional threads...
Yes, I really hope this is just poor wording in that rule. For such innovations that are in a grey rule-area but aren't actually considered legal, this is an acceptable rule. However, I would hope that other (good) innovations will just trigger a reformulation or specific permission by the ruleset for the next season. The current wording doesn't sound favourable though :/.

[EDIT]
dumrick wrote:The rules that state that wheels must be made of a single, homogeneous material are clearly being defied here...
Indeed, and for any doubters:
FIA 2006 Regulations wrote:12.3 Wheel material :
All wheels must be made from an homogeneous metallic material.

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Lightspeed
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006, 07:52

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dumrick wrote:
http://www.formula1.com/photos/ta_artic ... le_322.jpg[/img]
deeming these rims illegal would be straighforward, much more straightforward and understandable than the mass damper ban...
It cant be classified as a "moving aerodynamic device". Sure it turms with the wheel, but it does not "move" in the same sense as the mass damper.
The rules that state that wheels must be made of a single, homogeneous material.
They can be deemed a part of the brake cooling system !

Apparently Toro Rosso and Toyota have used this before too and this was accepted as legal by the FIA.

Check this out : seen earlier in the year on the Toyota, in Hungary Toro Rosso introduced rim shields for their rear wheels. A carbon lip is applied to the outer face of the wheel with the aim of improving brake cooling, whilst at the same time providing a minor aerodynamic gain by cutting turbulence near the rear wing.
http://www.formula1.com/race/technical_ ... 3/321.html

And besisdes, it would hardly make any difference to the Ferrari's performance IMHO.

peroa
peroa
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006, 11:14
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

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Interesting point by Ron:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54081

If the rims are part of the brake ducts, that means each time Ferrari change tyres...they're changing the bodywork of the car too. Which under parc ferme rules I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do.
Easy on the Appletini!

allan
allan
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

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peroa wrote:Interesting point by Ron:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54081

If the rims are part of the brake ducts, that means each time Ferrari change tyres...they're changing the bodywork of the car too. Which under parc ferme rules I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do.
so if someone breaks his car's nosecone, he is not allowed to replace it?
man this is genius!!!! :shock:

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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peroa wrote:Interesting point by Ron:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54081

If the rims are part of the brake ducts, that means each time Ferrari change tyres...they're changing the bodywork of the car too. Which under parc ferme rules I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do.
Bodywork may be removed and/or cleaned during post qualifying parc ferme conditions.
Post qualifying parc ferme ends at the green lights for the formation lap.
Post race parc ferme starts at the end-of-race signal (usually when the first car completes the full race distance).

Only thing I can currently find about replacing parts during the race:
If it becomes necessary to replace any part of the car during the race, the new part must not weigh any more than the original part.

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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I must note that I'm not entirely sure whether the definition of "wheel bead" means the outer ridge on the wheel, or the inner plane. Someone who knows, do enlighten us.

So, I've dug through the rules again:
FIA 2006 Regulations wrote:11.4 Air ducts :
Air ducts around the front and rear brakes will be considered part of the braking system and shall not protrude beyond :
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm above the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm below the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;
Relating to the rim shields, this means their outer diameter is limited to 320mm (if we are to interpret them as brake cooling ducts).
Then we have:
FIA 2006 Regulations wrote:12.4.4 Wheel bead diameter must lie between 328 and 332mm.
Now, if, by the wheel bead diameter, they mean the outer diameter of the outer ridge of the rim, this ridge must be at least 8-12mm high to make the shields legal air ducts (if nothing else prevents their existance).
However, if they mean the inner diameter of the ridge or the inside plane, then these shields are at least 8mm too large to be allowed as legal air ducts of the braking system, the way they are currently attached.

So, someone, please clarify the wheel bead for me :).

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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First, Briatore commentson the issue:
"When the rules change halfway through the championship, the situation is certainly distorted," he told Italian broadcaster RAI. "It not the technical motivation, but the timing and manner which seems stupid to me.

"How can it follow that in the middle of the championship a device everyone always considered legal, is not valid anymore?"
And this is all what must be said about the "fairness" of the banning.

Second, the wheel rims: again?

@Saribro: the bead of a tire is its outer lip or edge: "an inextensible hoop of high tensile steel wires that anchors the plies and conforms to the rim seat to hold the tire onto the wheel rim". The wheel have a bead seat. A rim has no beads.
Ciro

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Sawtooth-spike
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 15:33
Location: Cambridge

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Saribro wrote: Bodywork may be removed and/or cleaned during post qualifying parc ferme conditions.
Post qualifying parc ferme ends at the green lights for the formation lap.
Post race parc ferme starts at the end-of-race signal (usually when the first car completes the full race distance).
but are the checked after the race?, so they could be differant?
I believe in the chain of command, Its the chain I use to beat you till you do what i want!!!

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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Ciro Pabón wrote:@Saribro: the bead of a tire is its outer lip or edge: "an inextensible hoop of high tensile steel wires that anchors the plies and conforms to the rim seat to hold the tire onto the wheel rim". The wheel have a bead seat. A rim has no beads.
I just quoted from the rules :). I suppose they're implying the mating surface between tyre and rim.
In any case, with that in mind: If they call it part of the brake ducting it's too large to be legal, if they call it an aerodevice it's part of the wheel and fails material-limitations. IMHO of course: ).

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Lightspeed wrote:They can be deemed a part of the brake cooling system !
How can something be part of any system if it isn't attached to it directly? That would be like saying that driver's helmet is part of the engine air intake system because it has influence on airflow into snorkel.

Since movable aerodynamic devices are banned how can rim shield be considered as attached even when it is mounted on car together with wheel? It rotates all the time so that makes it movable aero device improving aerodymanics (not to mention material that makes it illegal too as well as being second part of the wheel wich is also illegal).

Regarding replacement... chaning nose cone means that time was already on circuit and more time lwill be lost during replacement. Changing rim shield together with wheel takes requires additonal time so there is a huge difference.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Regarding Ciro's "again"... What was mentioned on official F1.site comes after mass damper was found illegal and that same site writes yesterday once again that rims are improving aero just as they wrote that mass damper does, so I wonder who is being played for a fool and I think we are - the F1 fans.

I mean, how can official F1 site write that? Why and how official F1 site says that rim is improoving aero and FIA says it doesn't?

Can someone explain this? This technical analysis for Turkish GP is 4th mentioning of rim on official F1 site and each time - twice for Ferrari, once for Toyota and once for STR f1.com said it improves aerodynamics so how come FIA isn't aware of that too?
Last edited by manchild on 27 Aug 2006, 02:03, edited 1 time in total.

SuperSonic
SuperSonic
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004, 02:16

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3.15 Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane) and the ducts
described in Article 11.4
, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork.
- Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any
degree of freedom).
- Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

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SuperSonic wrote:3.15 Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork.
- Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom).
- Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.
Ah, but if they are brake ducts they violate the dimensional rules in 11.4.
If they are not brake ducts, they are movable (though Ferrari claims their profile remains the same so it doesn't matter) whilst not being exempt from 3.15, and they violate material limitations concerning wheels.

SuperSonic
SuperSonic
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004, 02:16

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If we consider a wheel bead diameter of 332mm and a rim shield diameter of 320mm, there is a difference of 12mm. Split it in two to place the rim shield in the center of the wheel and you get 6mm in each extremity of the wheel, wich could be what we see in the picture:

Image

Compare the rear wheels to the front ones and you'll see what I mean.

But in my opinion it is illegal under item 2.3 Dangerous Construction.