Ferrari F2012

[Bomber_Pilot]

Bigger diffuser?

[timbo]

quote:
Alex @ AMorteF
Ferrari could test on Friday with a slight forward tilt of the engine as they did during the 2010 season

Highly doubtful.
Firstly, such change would require serious internal repackage, and possibly even a modification to rear impact structure, and a new crash test.
Secondly, with tight diffuser rules of today, there's little use for that anyway, no need to accommodate DDD channels.

[alogoc]

alogoc ‏@alogoc
@ScarbsF1 Rumor is Ferrari could test on Friday with a slight forward tilt of the engine as they did during the 2010 season! Benefits?

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1
@alogoc none that I can think of, with the current diffuser rules, that's a big change to 'test' it needs a completely new car and bodywork

[amouzouris]

i can think of something that this (tilting the engine forward) would benefit though....as we discussed extensively in this thread...the f2012 was designed with a lot of rake in mind...BUT while today they are running with a bit of rake...it is not the amount we saw in jerez....in addition as bhallg2k said some months ago....and i agreed with him...is that one of the problems the car had with traction came from not being able to run as much rake and the car was really stiff at the rear...so by tilting the engine a bit forward...they will bring the suspension upwards but not the diffuser...so they will run as much rake to the floor and diffuser as they can by sealing the diffuser but the suspension will be higher allowing them to run it as it was suppose to from the beginning and gain some rear traction from it....

edit: grammar

[timbo]

i can think of something this would benefit though....as we discussed extensively in this thread...the f2012 was designed with a lot of rake in mind...BUT while today they are running with a bit of rake...it is not the amount we saw in jerez....in addition as bhallg2k said some months ago....and i agreed with him...is that one of the problems the car had with traction came from not being able to run as much rake and the car was really stiff at the rear...so by tilting the engine a bit forward...they will bring the suspension upwards but not the diffuser...so they will run as much rake to the floor and diffuser as they can by sealing the diffuser but the suspension will be higher allowing them to run it as it was suppose to from the beginning and gain some rear traction from it..

It would be much easier to do thru change to suspension geometry. Moreso, you can't get softer ride without change of rear rideheight, otherwise you'd be scraping the track, so it is pointless anyway,

[Kiril Varbanov]

Ah, the infamous 3.5° from 2010, where diffuser rules made sense. This, however, has effect on overall CoG, but it's not an overnight change. Increasing the diffuser's exit area itself doesn't bring automatic performance and rear downforce.

[.poz]

They can also accommodate some kind of tunnel/ducts to blow diffuser/starter hole like RB in the space under the tilted engine.

[amouzouris]

i can think of something this would benefit though....as we discussed extensively in this thread...the f2012 was designed with a lot of rake in mind...BUT while today they are running with a bit of rake...it is not the amount we saw in jerez....in addition as bhallg2k said some months ago....and i agreed with him...is that one of the problems the car had with traction came from not being able to run as much rake and the car was really stiff at the rear...so by tilting the engine a bit forward...they will bring the suspension upwards but not the diffuser...so they will run as much rake to the floor and diffuser as they can by sealing the diffuser but the suspension will be higher allowing them to run it as it was suppose to from the beginning and gain some rear traction from it..

It would be much easier to do thru change to suspension geometry. Moreso, you can't get softer ride without change of rear rideheight, otherwise you'd be scraping the track, so it is pointless anyway,

well i have to disagree...with pullrods there is less adjustability and it might be harder to adjust the geometry...also the suspension was designed as we said with higher right height at the rear....lowering it that much meant that they had to stiffen it up so that it wouldn't bottom out continually....bringing the rear suspension up will allow them to run it softer as it was intended to because it won't bottom out that easily...

in addition you probably didnt read my whole post...i said that the ride height would be adjusted by tilting the engine forward...it will bring the gearbox upwards and the suspension which is attached to it...

[Crabbia]

well if anyone could pull of something like this mid season it would most likely be ferrari as they have the experience and amouzouris what you say makes sense in a way, but...
Wouldnt it make more sense for them to address the original design flaws so they can run the rake they initially designed for? and it also seems that they are so close as they have been running more and more rake, or seemingly so, from monaco onwards.

if they believed in the concept of a high rake car and the benefits it would bring why would they bail on that concept at the point in the season that they seem to be getting so close to it?

[timbo]

in addition you probably didnt read my whole post...i said that the ride height would be adjusted by tilting the engine forward...it will bring the gearbox upwards and the suspension which is attached to it...

The rideheight is the gap between floor and the track. If the floor in the same position relative to track, than tilting does nothing to ride.

lowering it that much meant that they had to stiffen it up so that it wouldn't bottom out continually....bringing the rear suspension up will allow them to run it softer as it was intended to because it won't bottom out that easily...

Does not make sense if the floor in the same position.

[Bomber_Pilot]

Wouldnt it make more sense for them to address the original design flaws so they can run the rake they initially designed for? and it also seems that they are so close as they have been running more and more rake, or seemingly so, from monaco onwards.

if they believed in the concept of a high rake car and the benefits it would bring why would they bail on that concept at the point in the season that they seem to be getting so close to it?

Completelly agree. To do something like this mid season IMO would just be a waste of human resources and budget. Plus, as we have seen thus far this season, the car in its foundation isn't that bad, it's quite good actually, so why not develop it further without such major changes, that would require for half of the car to be changed.

[amouzouris]

well...it does...since the suspension will be brought upwards the ride height of the suspension will change but not the one of the floor...cs u want the floor lower for the diffuser to work with the current exhaust design that doesn't let u run as much rake... read what ive said again and u will understand what im on about...

@crabbia: maybe they think that that is the limit of how high you can run it..also the last sector of the hungaroring rewards good traction...
also what im saying is a reason why the MIGHT do this IF the rumors are true..

[alogoc]

Apperantly it was tested in Idiada by Marc Gene!

Could it be that the car was originaly designed whit an option to tilt the engine?

[amouzouris]

Apperantly it was tested in Idiada by Marc Gene!

Could it be that the car was originaly designed whit an option to tilt the engine?

source? also... it might not be that hard to tilt the engine after all...

[timbo]

well...it does...since the suspension will be brought upwards the ride height of the suspension will change but not the one of the floor...cs u want the floor lower for the diffuser to work with the current exhaust design that doesn't let u run as much rake... read what ive said again and u will understand what im on about...

Having higher ridehide alone is of no benefit for traction, what you want is bigger suspension travel. Having the floor in the same position wouldn't allow for that. So no point.