Ferrari F2012

[bhall]

"Switching on" tires is one thing; doing so while maintaining durability is quite another. Every team on the grid has had tire issues of some kind at one point or another this year, and they've all improved from the beginning of the season. I just see the F2012's meteoric ascendance within that time period as evidence of an increased understanding of the tires, given that most other avenues of improvement are now regulated to death.

I think they saw the writing on the wall last year, and that's why they hired Hirohide Hamashima to be their tire guru this year.

[superdread]

"Switching on" tires is one thing; doing so while maintaining durability is quite another. Every team on the grid has had tire issues of some kind at one point or another this year, and they've all improved from the beginning of the season. I just see the F2012's meteoric ascendance within that time period as evidence of an increased understanding of the tires, given that most other avenues of improvement are now regulated to death.

I think they saw the writing on the wall last year, and that's why they hired Hirohide Hamashima to be their tire guru this year.

Ideally you would need a setup that jumps the tires to a temperature and stops. The stopping part is the harder one, and last year Ferrari had the spring-damped rear anti-roll bars (adapted from endurance racing) that while prolonging tire life needed a long warmup.

And tires are as regulated as every other part (more so as they can't do static tests). J-dampers would have really helped in this whole tire-thing that started with Pirelli.

[bhall]

Yeah, after it was preemptively banned this past winter, Ferrari claimed to have never developed a reactive ride height system. But, I wonder if that's true.

[superdread]

Yeah, after it was preemptively banned this past winter, Ferrari claimed to have never developed a reactive ride height system. But, I wonder if that's true.

J-Damper are not a ride height system, and they were banned two times under different names. As far as I understand is that they decouple the chassis from the oscillaton of the tires, elseway the added inertia of the chassis would prolong that oscillation so that the tires are loaded long after the corner is over. This is countered by the normal dampers but they make the suspension more lazy to respond (on turn-in for example). J-Dampers would have allowed much softer normal dampers -> longer tire life.

The ride height control under braking (where LRGPs solution was banned in the winter) could have replaced the anti-dive function of the front suspension almost completely (also aiding front aero as wishbones could be parallel to the road, rather than anti-dive).

I think McLaren was interested in such a system as well but waited to see how LRGPs would pan out. Their brake-based solution could have been adapted quite fast so no need to put money in a system that you can simply copy. Also FIA gave LRGP the go ahead a long time ago but nowadays they see movable aero everywhere.

[bhall]

Yes, I know that a J-damper is not the same thing as reactive ride height. I have a tendency to move from one point to another if they're even somewhat related.

I question Ferrari's claims regarding reactive ride height because of the problems with pitch sensitivity also attributed to the car earlier this year. Such problems could manifest themselves in the form of increased tire wear and degradation if the suspension is made stiffer to compensate and maintain all-important aerodynamic balance.

[superdread]

Yes, I know that a J-damper is not the same thing as reactive ride height. I have a tendency to move from one point to another if they're even somewhat related.

I question Ferrari's claims regarding reactive ride height because of the problems with pitch sensitivity also attributed to the car earlier this year. Such problems could manifest themselves in the form of increased tire wear and degradation if the suspension is made stiffer to compensate and maintain all-important aerodynamic balance.

They ARE illegal and difficult to hide from the FIA, as it's something extra in the otherwise regulated and homogeneous area. Otherwise FIA isn't very communicative regarding what teams have on their cars (rightly so) and not very decisive.

[bhall]

Yes, I know they're illegal. I question Ferrari's stance about having not developed one, because some of the problems attributed to the car seem like the problems one could associate with a car that was designed from the outset to have reactive ride height but was subsequently stripped of the opportunity to employ it somewhere along the way.

[alogoc]

quote:Ferrari gearbox change in Hungary.

more and more signs of a suspension/engine angle rumors being true!

[bhall]

From German GP (radio transmission translation from late in the race):

Alonso has been told to light the tyres up (run an advantage).

Which means Hirohide Hamashima is doing his job (investigating tyre profile depth etc).

Oil pressure slightly low in the gearbox...

[...]

Is this a five-place penalty gearbox change or an end-of-service gearbox change?

[mx_tifoso]

My guess would be nothing negative. Low oil pressure but still running at max capacity seems to indicate that all was well, otherwise he would have been told to take it easier. If anything it might the second option and the gearbox is out for good, but aside from a team confirmation we would need someone who keeps track of mileage and change intervals to check it out and see what's possible.

But don't gearboxes use up oil naturally? Like engines.

[superdread]

Yes, I know they're illegal. I question Ferrari's stance about having not developed one, because some of the problems attributed to the car seem like the problems one could associate with a car that was designed from the outset to have reactive ride height but was subsequently stripped of the opportunity to employ it somewhere along the way.

Ahh, with that your comment makes more sense. Although when Ferrari goes to the lengths of developing pullrod front suspension (mostly for aerodynamic benefit) and then using anti-dive wishbone geometry (the links of the wishbones are not in a line parallel to the airflow -> more extra drag and disturbed airflow from the longer suspension rod that a pushrod has).
Other than that I can't think of something that would be designed different if a reactive ride height system is employed. Suspension parts like dampers and springs are changed in a heartbeat.

But don't gearboxes use up oil naturally? Like engines.

Not really as engines actually burn the oil (because the cylinder wall is lined with it). The oil in gearboxes can only escape through the seals.

[Hail22]

this is gearbox number two change if Ferrari decides to take it they have used two rotations of the gearbox and it would be wise to save whats left of this box for First practice one and two for future Grand Prixs (if they're allowed to do so).


But on the scale Ferrari is due for a "regulation approved" gearbox change.

[raymondu999]

I don't think you're allowed to rotate gearboxes. The limit is not on how many gearboxes you use - it's that you have to use a gearbox for 4 separate races IIRC.

[dr_cooke]

My guess would be nothing negative. Low oil pressure but still running at max capacity seems to indicate that all was well, otherwise he would have been told to take it easier. If anything it might the second option and the gearbox is out for good, but aside from a team confirmation we would need someone who keeps track of mileage and change intervals to check it out and see what's possible.

But don't gearboxes use up oil naturally? Like engines.

I think Germany was the 5th and last race for that gearbox

https://twitter.com/F1Chivato/status/22 ... to/1/large

[Gilles 27]

Another big point in the development, imho, is the DRS that has make big difference in Hockenheim. The F2012 has with, closed DRS, a topspeed of ca. 300/302 km/h (if i see right) on the straight of the german circuit. Once open 316-318 km/h a diff of 14-16 km/h ! After this observation, i think they not only have ride with more downforce to save the tyres, but enough "defensive" topspeed to be save once in front. Even McL can't passed Alonso and they have generaly more topspeed as Ferrari.