Ferrari F2012

[PhillipM]

yes! and incidentally improve car's car's center of gravity,improve car's car's rear suspension,improve rear-end aerodynamics, and improve the very way the car applies power to the ground

they need to improve everything,because they tried small steps after Canada and they clearly fell behind!

No, you mis-read, tilting the engine would MAKE ALL OF THAT WORSE!

So, what is your reasoning?

[bhall]

@alogoc could also help them to place similar ducting that Red Bull use for the tunnel system.

Unnecessary. Ferrari has the best exhaust package on the grid right now.

@alogoc plausible for cog and aerodynamic reasons. May help shift the weight distribution which is key for this pirelli formula

Weight distribution is standard for all teams; it cannot be changed.

Rory Byrne: "Why be ordinary when you can be extraordinary"

Rory Byrne would laugh in the face of anyone suggesting these changes.

Please stop this nonsense. You've been asked several times now.

[N12ck]

@alogoc could also help them to place similar ducting that Red Bull use for the tunnel system.

Unnecessary. Ferrari has the best exhaust package on the grid right now.

@alogoc plausible for cog and aerodynamic reasons. May help shift the weight distribution which is key for this pirelli formula

Weight distribution is standard for all teams; it cannot be changed.

Rory Byrne: "Why be ordinary when you can be extraordinary"

Rory Byrne would laugh in the face of anyone suggesting these changes.

Please stop this nonsense. You've been asked several times now.

bang on Bhallg2k, tilting the engine would raise C.O.G which is bad! and you cant move distribution forward due to rules so it cant help there either, why change exhaust concept again when this system seems to work for the majority of teams at the moment

[bhall]

I think the engine tilt bullshit has become a bit of a meme at this point. I should stop feeding it with replies, but I can't help but be me.

[N12ck]

I think the engine tilt bullshit has become a bit of a meme at this point. I should stop feeding it with replies, but I can't help but be me.

the redbull ducting reasons dont stand either, because if you want space for ducts you would reshape the step plane/reference shape around the plank to allow more space, and apart from that, why change exhaust solution?!

[superdread]

I think the engine tilt bullshit has become a bit of a meme at this point. I should stop feeding it with replies, but I can't help but be me.

the redbull ducting reasons dont stand either, because if you want space for ducts you would reshape the step plane/reference shape around the plank to allow more space, and apart from that, why change exhaust solution?!

You only would have to raise the rear crash structure, a little bit and you get tons of space. But even now its well enough for all you could want to put there.

And we had this argument, multiple times...

[PlatinumZealot]

Too bad people don't realise that the engines end right behind the exhaust flanges.. some think that the engine goes on until the middle of the gearbox.

Tilting the engine Nose down has no benefit this year, because
(1) there is nothing to put underneath it.(no double diffuser).
(2) You reduce your gas tank space.
(3) You will need a new gearbox, with the shafts and gearing on a tilted axis to avoid moving the whole rear of the car higher into the air. And yes you will have less space to put bodywork because of regulations on maximum height!

Tilting the engine nose up.
1. If your car has built in rake... you can sort of get a better COG on the gearbox... but it might cancel out with the engine weight...
2. Empty space underneath the engine and nothing to go there.... unless you have bigger KERS gearing or some batteries or some crap.
3. You can leave the gearbox gearing as is..no need to design for a tilted axis if the car has a built in rake.

There might be other reasons..

[.poz]

Tilting the engine Nose down has no benefit this year, because
(2) You reduce your gas tank space.

Maybe you just change the shape of your gas tank and this is one of the objective Ferrari is aiming to. Volumes are still the same

[alogoc]

moving on than as requested,my apology to all!

[mx_tifoso]

That's not very useful to the majority of the members here, as hardly anyone speaks Italian.

Hablas espanyol?

[alogoc]

That's not very useful to the majority of the members here, as hardly anyone speaks Italian.

i was hoping someone knows because i also don't!

[f1316]

I have just about enough Italian to understand that the headline is essentially "Crucial week for Ferrari to prepare the aerodynamics for Spa and discover why the three new front wings don't work" - hopefully that's correct (swear to God no Google translate was used!)

But anyone care to provide the gist of the actual article? Anything but the basics is too much for my beginner/intermediate level...

[ecapox]

Cliff notes cause im trasnlating this --- word for word.

Step Backwards (2nd bold part):
Basically they say that the updated introduced since Silverstone dont work perfectly. In Gernany Alonso was all ging-ho about having the best car and now he has had to backtrack on that a little because McLaren was almost a second faster. They have brought things back to the factory to verify why they dont work. This year it is more importtant to take things to the track that you know are already going to work well...whcih they havent done.

Failure:
The front wings they have been testing suck. The wind tunnel data is not corresponding to on track data. Why did we beat the crap out of everyone in Gernamy but not in Hungary, asks Alonso.

The Cure:
This last week before the holiday is crucial. They need to fogure out why these wings are failing to correlate with the wind tunnel and get straight to developing the package for Spa and Monza where speed is the key...a place where the Ferrari has sucked. They have a few new aero parts for these races btu they arent going to be comparable to the ones McLaren will bring.

[Dream Theater]

Here we go, I try to summarize what is written in this Italian article:

The title says that, despite all the team now is in vacations, Alonso's asking for new updates, in order to find out why the 3 front wings didn't worked as expected. Also, the title says that this is a crucial week for preparing the upgrades package for SPA.

In the first part of the article, is written that despite the ultra positive series of results, the F2012 isn't yet the best car, and, of course, Alonso is asking for more important upgrades, because the last tried updates didn't worked as expected, and, because of that, the team has done a step back.

The second part basically says that the team was very positive with the upgrades, till Canada and Valencia. Infact, Alonso has said after Valencia: "The car has no weak points, and I don't see any reasons to be worried about the Hungarian GP", but after that race, something hasn't worked, some component have been taken back to Maranello, in order to verify them. The team is a bit surprised about the F2012's performance in Hungary, because the F2012 was the best car, in every condition, in Germany.

Anyway, the team is trying to react, and the factory is preparing the new parts for SPA and Monza.

The last thing, Domenicali says that the upgrade won't be as big as the one taken to Germany from Mclaren.

EDIT: while I was translating, ecapox preceded me! However, two translation are better than one!

[f1316]

Yes, two for the price of one - much appreciated!

Anyway, it echoes what's been worrying me in the last few races - relatively small things being tested but not raced. I take the point about them possibly trying these FWs to go with other new parts, but I'm afraid it doesn't ring true to me ahead of a 5 week gap before which they were surely aiming to bring some performence to the car.

What worries me is that there's precedent for these types of issues and, before anyone says it, there's also precedent for them saying "the wind tunnel data correlation issue's been fixed". Last year they went backwards at Spa when they had looked at their most competitive in the three races preceding it. Ferrari still struggle a bit without real, on-track testing, and that may be why they were able to claw back a lot of time following an actual test session (Mugello).