COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

What do you think of the prospect of a USGP 2012 at Austin Texas

Good thinking. Place has good infra structure and nice climate in winter.
126
47%
Not good as it has no motor sport tradition in the US.
23
9%
I will wait to see how it will shape up.
97
36%
I don't care.
23
9%
 
Total votes: 269

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Here's a photo Vance took today from Haywood's hill. This gentleman was clearing for something on Mr. Haywood's property. That's not why I post it, though.

Image

Notice the green area in the distance near the track. That's listed as a GA area by COTA. From just this side of T10 to about half way down that straight, that will be a very uphill view to the track.

Also, some people have commented that T10 hadn't been looking as daunting as once thought as it seemed wider than anticipated. However, take a look at it now with the curbs in place. Much narrower.
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

The ground actually slopes down to the track there - the photo is deceptive due to the shape of the quick-grass, which tapers to a sharp point right at T10, the height of the hill at 11, and that fact that the Austin horizon doesn't actually tilt up to the right. :wink:

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Pup wrote:The ground actually slopes down to the track there - the photo is deceptive due to the shape of the quick-grass, which tapers to a sharp point right at T10, the height of the hill at 11, and that fact that the Austin horizon doesn't actually tilt up to the right. :wink:
The land outside the circuit slopes upward from the track between 9 & 10. From 10 til at least 1/2 of the way to 11, it's downhill as you move away from the track. It's not deceptive. Look at 10 itself. It's off-camber and slopes very much to the outside.

Anyone in GA "downstream" from 10 will be looking uphill to the track.

You can see it better in these photos I shot back in April. Look at the dozer to the left, below the track.

Image

Image
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Look at pics taken from the track - it goes up.

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Pup wrote:Look at pics taken from the track - it goes up.
Not there. I've walked the area 100 times. It descends from the track as you go away. Look at the bulldozer. It's much lower than the track. Look at the water below the track at the left edge of the bottom pic.

Whatever pics you've seen that show the viewing areas rising away from the track (yes, there are many) aren't there just north of 10. Maybe you could provide one.
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Look at budaman's driving tour, at 1:25 he's headed into 10 and you can see the GA area rise up to the left and then on the right after he makes the turn. The grandstands won't start until after he's past the gantry. Freeze it at 1:29 and you can see how the area tapers down, which is what gives the distortion when looking down from the hill. Use the car at the top left for scale: there should be plenty of good viewing area. It's easy to be deceived when the grade is changing - there's a reason that in the photos taken from that point, you and your friend both have the horizon tilted. You're being fooled by the hill you're standing on.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxPjrRdPKc[/youtube]
Last edited by Pup on 02 Aug 2012, 05:36, edited 1 time in total.

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Pup wrote:Look at budaman's driving tour, at 1:25 he's headed into 10 and you can see the GA area rise up to the left and then on the right after he makes the turn. The grandstands won't start until after he's past the gantry. Plenty of good viewing area.
In the video you can't see the 50 yards or so behind the guardrail that descends before starting to rise again well back from the track toward the edge of COTA's property.

These photos show the transition from downhill back to uphill as you get closer to 11. That uphill portion will be occupied by the T11E GS.

Image

Image

It's plainly visible in the photos. I've been out there and walked the land for 2 years. Don't believe me...fine. Wait to be surprised in November. People ask me all the time for info to differentiate between viewing areas. That's what I'm providing. Anyone who goes out there and walks down into that area will see what I mean.
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

It's an odd thing to argue about, since you can see it quite clearly in the video from track level.

The fact that the horizon is off in pretty much every photo you've shown should be enough to tell you that your perception is off while standing on that hill. It's no big deal, humans suck at that - it's why we get fooled in funhouses into thinking water runs uphill and stuff. You're taking those photos while standing on a hill that slopes down, but your brain wants it to be level. So everything you see from that viewpoint seems to slope the other way. That's why the horizon is tilted; it's why the tractor is not (it's really angled slightly downhill); and it's why you perceive the GA area as sloping away from the track when it really slopes towards it.

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Pup wrote:It's an odd thing to argue about, since you can see it quite clearly in the video from track level.

The fact that the horizon is off in pretty much every photo you've shown should be enough to tell you that your perception is off while standing on that hill. It's no big deal, humans suck at that - it's why we get fooled in funhouses into thinking water runs uphill and stuff. You're taking those photos while standing on a hill that slopes down, but your brain wants it to be level. So everything you see from that viewpoint seems to slope the other way. That's why the horizon is tilted; it's why the tractor is not (it's really angled slightly downhill); and it's why you perceive the GA area as sloping away from the track when it really slopes towards it.
What you don't seem to get is that I've been down into that lower ground. It's not about how it looks to me in photos. I've seen it with my own eyes. I saw it today. Vance saw it and commented on it. My wife saw it. You're the only one I've come across who thinks it looks different from what I'm describing. It's not that big of a deal except in the way you'll dispute practically everything I post here when you clearly haven't ever set foot near the property.

In that last photo I posted, just look at the shadows. You can clearly see the contrast between the different inclines. The land that descends as you walk away from the track is shadowed. If it were as you say, it would be in full sun.
Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

thearmofbarlow
thearmofbarlow
0
Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 06:43

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

HS, dude, don't even bother. The hill country topology is enough to --- with a native Texan's head, let alone the heads of people that have never stepped foot there.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

From where I sit in Houston, it's difficult for me to envision hills of any kind in Texas.

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Yes, that special Texas topology. :roll:

Look at the video. Its plain as day.

Or you can look at versions 213 though 347 of the exact same photo, every one with that odd Austin horizon that just won't seem to stay level. HS' camera must have it out for him. Or the earth is tilted funny in Texas. They do call Austin weird. Safest to ignore things like that along with any other evidence to the contrary and just assume de facto that Tilke sloped the ground the wrong direction.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

To hear it told, Galileo had similar problems with his explanations of physical phenomena. However, his audience was decidedly more hostile.

thearmofbarlow
thearmofbarlow
0
Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 06:43

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

To end this pathetic display of ridiculousness once and for all...

Image

Horizon is now flat. OH ---! You're still looking uphill.

Thank you. Shut up.

thearmofbarlow
thearmofbarlow
0
Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 06:43

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

And just to hammer the point home...

Image