Jackie Stewart F1 legends question (aka is F1 too safe)

[strad]

Schumacher and Alonso have both said they would not have raced back then.
BUT...I don't blame them,,as I said, it depends on when you were brought up and the world you live in.
It's not just racing. I think there are many aspects where people today wouldn't even attempt the things our fore bearers did.
I see it many times where people say..No way..they were crazy to do that."
But in fact it wasn't crazy...it was just how it was.
I have said I don't wish to argue about it...There is no way I'm going to convince any one with an opposing view that racing has become too safe and certainly no one with the opposing view is going to change my opinion.
I do find it interesting that in general it seems to fall along generational lines.

[xpensive]

Take a look at the starting grid of Monaco's GP of 1970 when Ronnie made his debut, everybody knew the risks then.

Five out of sixteen, Rindt, Rodrigues, Siffert, Courage and McLaren, were dead within less than two years, Ronnie killed 1978.

Part of the sport back then and everybody knew it.

[Nando]

I don´t know what´s more of a deformed view of reality... todays driver´s are scared of old machines or that old gearboxes were quicker then todays double clutch or zeroshift gearboxes....
And in both absolutely nothing that supports your claims, just BS.

[Richard]

Schumacher and Alonso have both said they would not have raced back then.
BUT...I don't blame them,,as I said, it depends on when you were brought up and the world you live in.
It's not just racing. I think there are many aspects where people today wouldn't even attempt the things our fore bearers did.
I see it many times where people say..No way..they were crazy to do that."
But in fact it wasn't crazy...it was just how it was.
I have said I don't wish to argue about it...There is no way I'm going to convince any one with an opposing view that racing has become too safe and certainly no one with the opposing view is going to change my opinion.
I do find it interesting that in general it seems to fall along generational lines.

I suspect Schumacher and Alonso if born in that generation would have raced in that generation. I think it comes down to the difficulty in comparing different eras, as you say that's just how it was.

[bhall]

[...]
I do find it interesting that in general it seems to fall along generational lines.

Could it be any other way?

It wasn't mandatory for F1 drivers to wear seat belts until 1972. Prior to that, many thought it was better to be thrown from the car rather than to crash with it. It some cases, that may have actually been true. But, these days, I'm pretty sure Robert Kubica, amongst others, would beg to differ. Safety, like everything else in F1, evolves.

There's an entire generation of new drivers coming up who may have never once strapped themselves into a race car without having first strapped a HANS device to their helmet. Fifteen years ago, that wasn't the case, because no one aside from doctors and trauma surgeons knew anything about basal skull fractures.

Whenever advances in medical and safety technology allow it, it's incumbent upon everyone, no matter what they do, to avail themselves of that knowledge to better protect lives and livelihoods. Not only is there nothing wrong with that, to do otherwise is to be negligent.

That said, I do think perhaps the safety curve in F1 has exceeded that of the performance side, and I'd like to see the limits stretched a bit. I think it would both improve the show and ensure that no one gets complacent, which is absolute worst possible environment for safety.

[SeijaKessen]

I don´t know what´s more of a deformed view of reality... todays driver´s are scared of old machines or that old gearboxes were quicker then todays double clutch or zeroshift gearboxes....
And in both absolutely nothing that supports your claims, just BS.

If Schumacher and Alonso are both on record as saying they wouldn't have driven back then, then how is that a deformed view of reality?

It's not really all that surprising because the greatest danger involved with those old F1 cars came from the chances of the car going up in fire during a crash. Obviously the idea of burning to death can be a bit of a dampener eh?

[SeijaKessen]

Another point, a lot of these guys if they couldn't have done auto racing, probably would have found another life-risking endeavor.

Look at Didier Pironi. After he had the shunt at Hockenheim in '82, and his career was finished off, he decided to take up powerboat racing in 1987, and was promptly killed doing that.

[Nando]

If Schumacher and Alonso are both on record as saying they wouldn't have driven back then, then how is that a deformed view of reality?

show it.

[SeijaKessen]

I am still waiting for you to back up your 800hp claim.

Don't start demanding proof when you have issues doing it on your end.

[Nando]

I am still waiting for you to back up your 800hp claim.

Don't start demanding proof when you have issues doing it on your end.

I´ve already said it was rumored to have 800hp. I never claimed it was fact.

Again, show the quotes.

Safety regulations have changed throughout the years but people, human beings, haven´t.
People risked their lives back then and they still do it today, you must live in a highly isolated environment to think otherwise.
It has nothing to do with what the activity is.

People with the right mentality don´t really care what it is they are driving.
Had FIA changed the rules today and gave every team a Lotus 49 you would still see the drivers show up the next day ready for racing.
You expect me to believe Alonso and Schumacher would back down?
Especially Schumacher who actually raced when people died in F1?...

[SeijaKessen]

I am still waiting for you to back up your 800hp claim.

Don't start demanding proof when you have issues doing it on your end.

I´ve already said it was rumored to have 800hp. I never claimed it was fact.

Again, show the quotes.

Safety regulations have changed throughout the years but people, human beings, haven´t.
People risked their lives back then and they still do it today, you must live in a highly isolated environment to think otherwise.
It has nothing to do with what the activity is.

And then you said the Zonda R only had 600HP...and you said after I stated the correct number that it was down by 50HP. Funny how a rumor became a fact within a few posts on your end.

The risk in today's F1 is nothing like it was even 20 years ago.

Here's a question for everyone else.

If drivers are driving less on the limit than ever, would it be more likely that crashes do not happen, as opposed when they are driving on the limit more often?

[SeijaKessen]

Also Nando, the tracks have been so neutered in many regards, that the risk that existed in the past on certain tracks is no more.

Kind of hard to have the same risk at Spa that once existed, when many areas have been turned into parking lots for drivers to recover quickly.

Look at Vettel at Hockenheim.

If there was just grass and gravel where he made that illegal overtake on Button, he never attempts that move.

[Nando]

And then you said the Zonda R only had 600HP...and you said after I stated the correct number that it was down by 50HP. Funny how a rumor became a fact within a few posts on your end.

Because Wiki stated 600hp first. Then later down on the page it was said it had massaged to 750.

The risk in today's F1 is nothing like it was even 20 years ago.

Completely, 100% irrelevant and takes nothing away from the people that drive F1 cars.

Human being do crazy stuff today knowing they are risking their lives. Racing drivers are no different.
You are trying to separate human beings that drives cars for a living and those who do other stuff like basejumping, winguit-flying, Isle of Man.

[Nando]

Also Nando, the tracks have been so neutered in many regards, that the risk that existed in the past on certain tracks is no more.

Kind of hard to have the same risk at Spa that once existed, when many areas have been turned into parking lots for drivers to recover quickly.

Look at Vettel at Hockenheim.

If there was just grass and gravel where he made that illegal overtake on Button, he never attempts that move.

Again completely 100% irrelevant.

As i´ve said, the safety regulations has changed, humans haven´t.
Certain human beings is willing to risk their life in whatever way they please. Racing included.
It´s always been like this and probably always will be.

Show us the quotes as well. I´d like to read the whole interview/article if possible.

[SeijaKessen]

“The cars are easier to drive. You don't look at these guys and think 'they are real men'. They are talented, no question, but there is less in common. There is power steering now, [and] a lot of things that make the cars easier to drive. That's why these youngsters can get away with it." -Mark Webber