HRT F112 Cosworth

[C_Stonehouse]

I don't know how much performance they can extract from this hack chassis.

I forget, did they finally design their own chassis this year? The last couple of years I seem to remember they used an old 2008 Toyota one or something.

The F112 chassis is their own, but heavily based on the dallara.

Could you imagine a F1 DW12 o.o It would have blitzed montreal.

[cbbcisace]

I'd expect there canada spec to spa and monza. For them, it would make more sense then developing specific wings just for one race....the time and investment far out ways the gain - for them. imo. Then the upgrade at Singapore.

I would pay money to see them ATTEMPT to run the Canada spec wing at Spa. The lack of downforce would mean they'd be picking bits of car out the armco at Rivage, Pouhon, Fagnes or Stavelot. Most of HRT's updates seem to be concentrated on improving the internal cooling/ heat shielding of the car. I don't know how much performance they can extract from this hack chassis.

Can I ask how its a Hack chassis?

[cbbcisace]

I don't know how much performance they can extract from this hack chassis.

I forget, did they finally design their own chassis this year? The last couple of years I seem to remember they used an old 2008 Toyota one or something.

And in answer to your question, according to Perez Sala today anyway, they feel they are only at 50% of what the car do. The problem is that without a lot more money they don't have a prayer of extracting it!

I can't help but feel that they need a link-up with a bigger team similar to the Force India & McLaren arrangement. In 5 years FI have gone from backmarkers to consistant points finishers. HRT just seem like they desperately need a guiding hand now and then.

Yes its there own chassis, but based off the F111 due to time frame..

[marcush.]

the team itself says their biggest lack is in aero...not chassis .
one has to acknowledge the chassisis new and has of course styling cues carried over ,but that´s not unusual for any team in F1

[cbbcisace]

the team itself says their biggest lack is in aero...not chassis .
one has to acknowledge the chassisis new and has of course styling cues carried over ,but that´s not unusual for any team in F1

Marush you hit the nail on the head there, someone talking sense for once.

Im expecting a good upgrade for Singapore, what you expecting?

[Petroltorque]

I'd expect there canada spec to spa and monza. For them, it would make more sense then developing specific wings just for one race....the time and investment far out ways the gain - for them. imo. Then the upgrade at Singapore.

I would pay money to see them ATTEMPT to run the Canada spec wing at Spa. The lack of downforce would mean they'd be picking bits of car out the armco at Rivage, Pouhon, Fagnes or Stavelot. Most of HRT's updates seem to be concentrated on improving the internal cooling/ heat shielding of the car. I don't know how much performance they can extract from this hack chassis.

Can I ask how its a Hack chassis?

'Hack' is a euphemism for 'quick fix' or 'rush job'. I have stopped buying into the press spiel of HRT. It's not as though aero and mechanical aspects of the chassis can be separated, the aero has an effect on the internal cooling. HRT's actual performance level is now at 106% of ultimate pace and I just can't see them making any improvement over the rest of this season. They'd be better off ploughing money into their commission from MTO in Germany.

[cbbcisace]

So your not convinced the aero upgrade at Singapore will help at all??

HRT's press releases have been honest and truthful don't know how it's classed as spiel ?

[Petroltorque]

It's spiel because HRT are claiming that their pace is around 3% to 4% based solely on the Q1 qualifying times. It's the race pace that determines their true position and that's more like 6%. They are being shielded by STR in Q1 because the front runners don't need to run the option as they know Vergne or Ricciardo are guaranteed 18th spot.
Most of HRT's updates are around improvement in the cooling heat shielding of the car, ie reliability based. I'm assuming the front wing was the definitive front wing for the F112 rather than an update.
What they'd need to change to make an impact on Marussia ( who on raw pace are around 1s/ lap faster) would require such a major redesign of internal packaging and aero that they'd be best spending the budget on the 2013 car.

[Trocola]

It's spiel because HRT are claiming that their pace is around 3% to 4% based solely on the Q1 qualifying times. It's the race pace that determines their true position and that's more like 6%. They are being shielded by STR in Q1 because the front runners don't need to run the option as they know Vergne or Ricciardo are guaranteed 18th spot.
Most of HRT's updates are around improvement in the cooling heat shielding of the car, ie reliability based. I'm assuming the front wing was the definitive front wing for the F112 rather than an update.
What they'd need to change to make an impact on Marussia ( who on raw pace are around 1s/ lap faster) would require such a major redesign of internal packaging and aero that they'd be best spending the budget on the 2013 car.

HRT are not that far from Marussia. In qualy De la Rosa is very close to them, or even in front of one of the Marussia. On race pace they are slower, but not by one second. In Hungary, de la Rosa's fastest lap was only 3 tenths from the best Marussia

For Singapore they are talking about aero improvements. According to Perez-Sala, the reliability of the car is good, so I do not think that their major improvement will go for that. I hope they can pass Marussia with that package


Trocola

[Petroltorque]

In Hungary de La Rosa finished over a minute down on Pic. Download the live timing at the next race. That's the best way to see what's happeming at the rear of the grid and you eliminate the vagaries of fastest race lap which depends on fuel loads at the time. Alternatively you can look at the direct comparison of the race lap head to head at en.mclarenf-1.com

[imightbewrong]

It's spiel because HRT are claiming that their pace is around 3% to 4% based solely on the Q1 qualifying times. It's the race pace that determines their true position and that's more like 6%. They are being shielded by STR in Q1 because the front runners don't need to run the option as they know Vergne or Ricciardo are guaranteed 18th spot.
Most of HRT's updates are around improvement in the cooling heat shielding of the car, ie reliability based. I'm assuming the front wing was the definitive front wing for the F112 rather than an update.
What they'd need to change to make an impact on Marussia ( who on raw pace are around 1s/ lap faster) would require such a major redesign of internal packaging and aero that they'd be best spending the budget on the 2013 car.

I just compared DLR against the race winners in Hungary, Germany, and Silverstone (sum of all laps both DLR and the winner ran, so I discounted the final laps for the winners since DLR didn't run as many laps and removing the first lap as they loose a lot of time there due to having a longer lap and more traffic) and in those races DLR was 4.9%, 4.6%, and 4.1% slower. And these races were safety car free.

It should also be taken into account that DLR looses a lot of time letting lapped drivers past. So comparing just the first stint, the difference is 4.7%, 4.1% and 3.4%.

So 3-5% slower is probably a good estimate of their pace compared to the winning car.

[marcush.]

considering their recources and timescale they are a relevation.

[Petroltorque]

You can't throw out the unfavourable times because it biases the figures. By bias I mean a persistent error in the execution or interpretation of the results.

[Trocola]

In Hungary de La Rosa finished over a minute down on Pic. Download the live timing at the next race. That's the best way to see what's happeming at the rear of the grid and you eliminate the vagaries of fastest race lap which depends on fuel loads at the time. Alternatively you can look at the direct comparison of the race lap head to head at en.mclarenf-1.com

Yes, and De la Rosa finished 0.3 seconds from Glock. Considering that it was nearly impossible to pass in Hungary, it was a good result for De la Rosa and, if he could have pass Glock, he would have been closer to Pic.
That's what I am saying: HRT are behind Marussia, but not too far.


Trocola

[Petroltorque]

Glocks car had handling deficiencies that had plagued him in both Germany and Hungary. In fact Glock spun in the opening lap in Hungary and ceded position to both HRTs, so he was not holding them up. The basic tenet of any analysis is to compare like with like and that means comparing the lead times of each team. Comparing the fastest cat of team A with the slowest car of team B leads to false conclusions.