Alternative to Canopies/Windscreens/Front Roll Hoops

[wrcsti]

After seeing Massa's Accident ine Hungaroring in 2009 , the death of a pilot hitten by a wheel the same year if I still have a good memory and Now Maria's Accident .I am waiting for the FIA to act : Why not a closed cockpit ? juste like the LMP1 cars ? This will Surely protect the pilot ..Because of the whole body it is the head that is the most vulnerable

Get well soon Maria , My thoughts are with you and your family

I still stand by my statement that canopies will turn a car into a bbq for one unlucky driver. When you look at the driving position of an F1 car you notice that for something to hit the driver it has to be in a downwards motion, ie falling. anything moving in a horizontal or rising will either be intercepted or not be able to hit at all. This isnt like the 70s with the drivers sitting in the tall part of the car with a windshiled barely covering their chests. Freak things happen all the time. Look at LMP1 cars with their big fins and big holes in the hopes of stopping cars from taking off in crashes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzw5i14ewXY

[FW17]

I suggested a simple MP4-4/ M23 style mini windshield, I know the conclusions accepted were that non transparent options were the best, but I really don't feel like that will 'look' like f1 and wouldn't look great. My solution wasn't a canopy, was a simple mini windshield.
Problems are:
Possible warping of vision affecting drivers vision


Nick

[Coefficient]

Here's another option:-

In this a "slanted forward" carbon fibre hoop runs in front of the driver's fore head. The hoop would stop large heavy objects (like wheels) hitting the driver's helmet, without obscuring his view. The hoop could also incorporate the side head protection currently built into the pop out collar. A screen could be built between the hoop and collar to protect against small flying debris. The whole screen and hoop would hinge from its forward edge and out of the way to let the driver out. The top of the driver's helmet would still be "open" so you can see who is who. The hoop would also be a convenient place to mount a forward facing TV camera.

This is an excellent solution although I'm not sure you'd need the screen part if helmets could be made to absorb stronger frontal impacts such as that experienced by Massa.

Also, in addition to this fine idea could the FIA not mandate the pop out collar to inorporate the front of the airbox above the drivers head and in doing so make the airbox protrude some way over the drivers head to add further protection?

[rjsa]

I don't think this will work, the hoop would in fact channel traversing objects to the driver's neck once the buble gave away.

[myurr]

I don't think this will work, the hoop would in fact channel traversing objects to the driver's neck once the buble gave away.

I have to agree. Whilst that looks like a good solution whilst everything is in it's original position, how will the profile of that bar look when the canopy is being deformed by an impact? Anything strong enough not to deform under the kind of loads these canopies are supposed to protect against, is likely to instead shatter or be relatively heavy.

[Jackles-UK]

I'm not so sure that i'd write it off completely. On doing some (albeit very basic) testing on Lexan, a polycarbonate plastic, at Uni I can testify to it being immensely resilient, far more than I suspected it would be when I first saw it (it just looks like any normal piece of perspex!) hence the reason it is used in ballistic screens and the like. I think drivers' visors are made of Lexan but are only about 2mm thick.

Whilst I have little doubt that it wouldn't stop a spring or a wheel dead at 150mph @ 90° impact angle (nothing short of 1ft of concrete would do that!) I think it would stand a fairly decent shot at deflecting objects up towards the roll hoop hopefully dissipating enough of the energy to reduce the lethality. Any deflection away from the drivers head at all must be considered better than what is there at the moment.

[turbof1]

Here's another option:-

In this a "slanted forward" carbon fibre hoop runs in front of the driver's fore head. The hoop would stop large heavy objects (like wheels) hitting the driver's helmet, without obscuring his view. The hoop could also incorporate the side head protection currently built into the pop out collar. A screen could be built between the hoop and collar to protect against small flying debris. The whole screen and hoop would hinge from its forward edge and out of the way to let the driver out. The top of the driver's helmet would still be "open" so you can see who is who. The hoop would also be a convenient place to mount a forward facing TV camera.

Problem with this design is if it ends resting upsidedown there is no way for the driver to exit.

Would it not be very difficult already for a driver to get out of an upside down car? I mean they already need to remove the side protections to get out of the car in the first place, let alone finding enough space to crawl out the car.

I am not sure how much airbags can absorb of a shock, but the design above would allow incorporation of that.

[allstaruk08]

how about this design without any doors on the side, so there is 2 clear openings for the driver to escape and for the hot air in the cockpit to escape. im sure it wont be too aerodynamic in a raw no door state but im sure the aerodynamasists could come up with some way of adding little aero devices to reduce the effect of the opening

[superdread]

how about this design without any doors on the side, so there is 2 clear openings for the driver to escape and for the hot air in the cockpit to escape. im sure it wont be too aerodynamic in a raw no door state but im sure the aerodynamasists could come up with some way of adding little aero devices to reduce the effect of the opening

The openings had to be "huge" to get a driver through, especially when they also had to get the neck brace (that foamy thing they have above their shoulders) out of the car.

[allstaruk08]

If the driver is inside the car with a windscreen they wouldn't need the side protection like the have now they could incorporate side protection into the seat like you see in lmp and rally seats, but have it so it unclips or folds out each side through the opening. The opening without doors would be the same size as a opening would be with doors, why would it have to be huge if there's no doors?

[superdread]

If the driver is inside the car with a windscreen they wouldn't need the side protection like the have now they could incorporate side protection into the seat like you see in lmp and rally seats, but have it so it unclips or folds out each side through the opening. The opening without doors would be the same size as a opening would be with doors, why would it have to be huge if there's no doors?

I also don't think doors would work, but with a door they could make a cut in the chassis (possible because they now have a top connection) and let it take stress (problematic because the chassis could deform and jam the door shut).

Head side protection isn't as easy in F1 as elsewhere, because you have to be able to remove it (to get the driver in and out). Being able do fold it out would rather defeat the purpose of absorbing sideways forces. A more complicated system might work (e.g. clamps of some sorts, as you said).

In general, I'm against any form of canopies, windscreens, front roll hoops... because I believe they would hamper sight (or some other aspect) enough to give an overall safety loss, especially as there are generally no objects at a race track exclusively at that 15-20cm height window to hit the driver but not the car (de Villota was bad bad luck).

[thearmofbarlow]

A canopy would work just fine. The "OMG UPSIDE DOWN CAR!" fears are questionable at best. It's already damn near impossible for a driver to get out of an upside down car as it is so it's not like that's an issue. Once it's flipped back onto the rubber it would be somewhat trivial to devise a system where you could unhinge the canopy in an emergency situation. You could even build in multiple redundancies.

Creating a distortion-free canopy isn't cheap or easy, but is anything in F1 either of those things?

[Cam]

F1 has taken lots of tech from aviation, so I think they can take safety from aviation too. You don't see too many planes with open cockpits. Here's a read (PDF) from the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE JOINT SERVICE SPECIFICATION GUIDE - CREW SYSTEMS CRASH PROTECTION HANDBOOK. It goes into great detail about survivability, occupant exposure limits and methods for egress routes, including rationals and lessons learnt.

Enjoy.

http://acqnotes.com/Attachments/JSSG-2010-7.pdf

Ultimately, the “right” level of crash protection for a particular application is determined by balancing the four crash design considerations cited above. Once that level has been determined, a systems approach is recommended for developing the crash protection system based on the principles provided in MIL-STD-1290. Though MIL-STD-1290 was developed primarily for helicopters and light fixed wing aircraft, the “general crash survivability design factors” discussed in that document, and summarized below, form the foundation for crashworthiness design approaches in all aircraft types.

a. Airframe protective shell.
b. High mass component, equipment and cargo retention strength.
c. Occupant acceleration environment.
d. Occupant environment hazards.
e. Post-crash hazards.

[FW17]

Lucky for FA, but FIA should cover for the unlucky times
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxP2tC6LXk[/youtube]

[Pierce89]

Wow! this rendering from above is SWEET!