Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

[astracrazy]

People you can debate whether or not LH deserves No1 status at McLaren all they like but it's irrelevant but Mclaren don't do it.. period so it won't ever happen.

They would do it if Hamilton was as good as Vettel or Alsono (compared to his teammate). Apparently it's hard to accept for some but he simply isn't as good as those 2. It's even doubtful that he's really better than Button, let alone "clearly better".

Granted Alonso is the better all round driver, is Hamilton faster but less consistent? Maybe. But Vettel? I don't think his better than Hamilton. I place him just below Alonso and Hamilton. With Kimi and Button.

Doubtful Hamilton is better then Button? I'll admit Button can match him when the cars is 100% how he wants - i still wouldn't say his better. But when its not, Hamilton's on a different page. i.e Remember Canada this year? 1st Hamilton 16th Button

[Shrieker]

Remember Canada this year?

No they won't, they won't

[bhall]

I remember last season.

[raymondu999]

I always wonder what would've happened had they (McLarens) not collided that race. Perhaps a McLaren 1-2?

[astracrazy]

I remember last season.

don't open that can of worms lol

[Shrieker]

I remember last season.

There's no yesterday in motorsports. You are only as good as your last race(s). Plus it's well known Hamilton beat himself last year.

[bhall]

I remember last season.

There's no yesterday in motorsports. You are only as good as your last race(s). Plus it's well known Hamilton beat himself last year.

Then it's quite unnecessary to remember the Canadian Grand Prix, don't you think? And isn't Button's reputed inability to cope with a less-than-optimal setup also a form of beating one's self?

Let's at least try to be objective with our subjectivity here.

[sAx]

Let's at least try to be objective with our subjectivity here.

Comedy

[Shrieker]

I respectfully disagree bhallg2k, Hamilton of 2011 was never behind Button in terms of speed ( only exception was Suzuka) but had too many incidents for whatever reason. It's completely different with Button this year. When one car finishes 1st and the other in 16th a lap down, you can't really say the driver screwed himself up. Having the pace to finish 1st-2nd bar incidents and being completely lost are two very different things. You simply can't draw parallels in between.

The bottom line is, you can take any statistic you want into consideration and in all of them Lewis will come out ahead of Button. With the kind of situation in the points table it's complete gibberish claiming that Hamilton doesn't deserve no 1 status in the team now. Whether McLaren will grant him what he deserves is another matter of course.

[bhall]

[...]

The bottom line is, you can take any statistic you want into consideration and in all of them Lewis will come out ahead of Button. With the kind of situation in the points table it's complete gibberish claiming that Hamilton doesn't deserve no 1 status in the team now. Whether McLaren will grant him what he deserves is another matter of course.

Fair enough. But, given that, why does Hamilton even need team-ordained "#1 status" when he seems to be doing a good job of claiming it for himself on-track?

If he's looking for a team to kneel and kiss his ass just because he's doing the job he's paid to do, I think he probably needs to go somewhere else. That's simply not how McLaren rolls.

This shouldn't be an issue at all. Hell, since all we're doing here is operating from rumors and in-your-end-do, it may very well not be an issue. But, if this is a real point of contention, it inherently means he's not as focused as he should be on doing his job, and that's been a well-publicized problem of his for years. So, why should a top-level team crown that guy king?

"Most of our troubles are due to our passionate desire for and attachment to things that we misapprehend as enduring entities."
~ Dalai Lama

[Shrieker]

It very well may not be an issue yes, that's why i said 'let's wait and see' in the previous page. As to whether Hamilton would need no 1 status or not... Why do Alonso and Vettel need it Especially Alonso. Ferrari never had anything to hide, if Massa is in a position to take away points from Alonso which may very well prove to be useful come season's end, than he let's Alonso past. Simple as that.

"Most of our troubles are due to our passionate desire for and attachment to things that we misapprehend as enduring entities."
~ Dalai Lama

Condescension... That's what Lewis Hamilton gets. From the ones who judge him subjectively and not by his on track performances objectively. I think he is despised by many for varying reasons. They can't and won't speak the truth. I will.

[bhall]

That Ferrari and Red Bull engage in driver favoritism is irrelevant to this discussion. Nonetheless, Ferrari's choice is perplexing because Massa is simply not competitive against Alonso anyway, and Red Bull's strategy is bitterly disappointing because Webber is often very competitive versus Vettel. To each his own, I suppose.

Hamilton would do his reputation a world of favors if he stopped doing whatever he's doing that causes these stories about him to continually pop up. One or two are easy enough to dismiss. One or two a month, however...

It also wouldn't hurt matters if he could finally recognize the limits to his talent and that of the cars in which he drives. Though Whitmarsh says otherwise publicly, I'd be willing to bet that Hamilton's all-or-nothing approach isn't exactly popular within the team. No one likes to work their ass off and then walk away from those efforts with nothing to show for them, especially when the fruit of McLaren's labors is often very easy to pick. True, the team has let its drivers down. But, that street goes both ways.

I got the idea last year when he was in the doldrums that Hamilton needed to move on from McLaren. Despite his return to form this year, I've seen nothing to change my armchair-team principle-mind. I think Mercedes is a perfect fit. He'll likely have no choice but to adapt to inferior equipment, but that knowledge can do nothing but help him as a driver. And when/if he finally lifts Mercedes to the promised land, he'll get all the recognition he desires as a champion who built something rather than one who was given more advantages than any other current driver on the grid. (In case you wonder, that's likely the biggest catalyst for the condescension he receives from fans.)

[Shrieker]

He was put in a fast car in a top team and performed straight away. I don't see why he should've spent a year or two on inferior machinery. The histrory we know says it would've been a waste. I don't agree with the second argument either. You have to deliver and deliver consistently to rise to F1. Did he finish midfield somewhere along the way and still got promoted ? No. Was he given the best equipment all the time ? Yes. So were other F1 rookies who went on to become top drivers. Was Hamilton given more than them ? Maybe a bit more, yes. Did he justify all the investment ? Absolutely yes. In light of all said, I don't see how one can go ahead and say he was given advantages no one else enjoyed and it's a rational reason for despising him.

The haters go one step further and cry half the time that he was fed with a silver spoon. He wasn't.

[bhall]

Don't confuse an unwillingness to bow in the presence of Lord Hamilton with disdain. An objective look at his career quickly yields anomalies that add up to a reasonable assessment when combined with a recognition of his obvious talent.

He started at a top team and was given treatment within the team equal to that given to the two-time defending world champion. That's a platinum spoon, because it just doesn't get any better, and no current driver on the grid can claim such a start. In fact, only a precious few throughout the history of F1 have been given that kind of opportunity.

As much as his talent has easily justified that initial placement, I also think it's robbed him of humility. And how could it not? I too would I think I'm King --- of the World if my first impression of Formula One, "the pinnacle of motorsport," was one that indicated I can beat anyone at any time. My head would swell to the size of Norbert Haug's prodigious belly.

But, humility is what keeps a driver from pushing too hard and putting his car into a wall or into a Massa, because it reminds a driver of his limitations. No man can overcome a deficient car. It's just not possible, and this is a lesson quickly learned by every driver who starts at a Minardi, Marussia, Magoo, or anywhere a picture-perfect weekend results in a brilliant 18th-place finish. Hamilton does not know this yet, and he regularly demonstrates it with adversely aggressive driving and ill-advised Twitter posts.

Luckily for him, I think he can learn what he needs to learn and make all of his dreams come true with a move to Mercedes. If he does it, and does it right, people will have no choice but to give him the same level of respect they give to the drivers who built their success instead of having it delivered from the bill of a kiwi.

[beelsebob]

He started at a top team and was given treatment within the team equal to that given to the two-time defending world champion. That's a platinum spoon, because it just doesn't get any better, and no current driver on the grid can claim such a start. In fact, only a precious few throughout the history of F1 have been given that kind of opportunity.

Right, the question is... why does that matter? What makes you think that starting at a top team makes him better/worse/has any impact at all on his ability?

As much as his talent has easily justified that initial placement, I also think it's robbed him of humility. And how could it not? I too would I think I'm King --- of the World if my first impression of Formula One, "the pinnacle of motorsport," was one that indicated I can beat anyone at any time. My head would swell to the size of Norbert Haug's prodigious belly.

Agreed, Hamilton certainly ended up with too much ego, thankfully, last year seems to have taken him down a few pegs, and this season is going much better as a result.

But, humility is what keeps a driver from pushing too hard and putting his car into a wall or into a Massa, because it reminds a driver of his limitations.

Agreed, hence why this season is going so much better than last.

No man can overcome a deficient car. It's just not possible, and this is a lesson quickly learned by every driver who started at Minardi or Jordan or Sauber, or anywhere a picture-perfect weekend results in a brilliant 17th-place finish. Hamilton does no know this yet, and he regularly demonstrates it with adversely aggressive driving and ill-advised Twitter posts.

I think it's pretty lucky Hamilton doesn't know this yet, because it is possible, Alonso in the early season this year proved this. Of course, there's only so much a driver can do... Neither Hamilton or Alonso could make an HRT a pole sitter, but they should could out-do Karthikayen by a couple of seconds (or more).

Luckily for him, I think he can learn what he needs to learn and make all of his dreams come true with a move to Mercedes.

I'd tend to disagree – I think he already did the learning last season. Of course, that's not to say he won't get big headed again in the future.