2012 Singaporean GP - Marina Bay

[beelsebob]

I asked not long ago in another thread but got no answer about his:
AFAIK and according to Scarbs material, a KERS uses a MGU (Motor Generator Unit) which has dual function as its name clearly shows.
In the case of RBR in both failure cases they use strictly the word 'alternator'. Which implies there is a separate unit apart from MGU. And my question back then was are there separate alternator, driven by the engine and a MGU for the KERS.

Because the KERS provides extremely high current to quick charge a battery, while the alternator produces low current 5V and doesn't overload all the electronics in the car.

If you tried to use the MGU to power the car, all you'd do is blow the elecrtics up

[Dragonfly]

Yet it appears the alternator overloads and heats above the critical temperature.

And, with my humble electronics experience, I see no problem whatsoever to get stable and conditioned 5V supply from the KERS battery even if it has several tens of volts rating, or even more.

[simieski]

I think an alternator to charge KERS is a highly unlikely set up. Even with the reduced power set up system RBR operate it's still a huge ask of a relatively small alternator to provide sufficient charge. KERS can give a maximum output of 80hp, converted to electrical speak thats 60,000 Watts, I do not think it would be advisable to try to incorporate the on board normal power system with the KERS with this value in mind. An electrical motor, designed to handly high power loadings, would still be required to provide your power boost, so it makes too much sense to use this as the KERS power harvesting device also.

[Ral]

Yet it appears the alternator overloads and heats above the critical temperature.

And, with my humble electronics experience, I see no problem whatsoever to get stable and conditioned 5V supply from the KERS battery even if it has several tens of volts rating, or even more.

I'm sure it's quite easy to do technically. But, aside from the rules currently prohibiting it, why would you make that change now and put potentially even more stress on the alternator when you are already struggling with alternator issues? I don't think they could rely on the Kers generator by itself (again, if it were allowed) on all tracks, which means they can't get rid of it at all.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yet it appears the alternator overloads and heats above the critical temperature.

And, with my humble electronics experience, I see no problem whatsoever to get stable and conditioned 5V supply from the KERS battery even if it has several tens of volts rating, or even more.

The Alernator doesn't overload the circuits at high temperature though, it might actually under power them!
The components of the alternator just fail under the heat generated.

The MGU on the other hand can overload the electrical circuits of the car because it works at much higher voltages (over 400V??) and is wired to suck more power from the engine. The only way to practically reduce the voltage output from the MGU is to reduce the strength of the magnetic field winding inside it, or install a another DC to DC converter on the MGU.

The current from the MGU is derived from the engine torque transferred to the MGU. Therefore you only want to a small portion of the engine torque being transfered to MGU OR you have another load (KERS) in the MGU being charged at the same time.

So Technically it is possible to use it as an alterantor, but do you you want to use it 100% of the time with fancy controls to change field winding current on the fly and fancy load reduction devices that work in two diffrent modes? KERs mode and alternator mode? I think it is simpler and more reliable to use the tried and proven alternator to power the car electronics.

[Federico]

scarbs said in a blog post teams still use the alternator because the regulation says the kers motor can't power electronics. Probably in 2014 with the new rules changes the teams will get rid of the alternator

[SiLo]

What happens if the KERS unit fails though and there is no alternator?

Back on topic, I would really like to see the top 8 positions filled by Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull and Lotus. That would be a good race!

[turbof1]

What happens if the KERS unit fails though and there is no alternator?

What if the gearbox fails? Or the engine?
If the electronics get to work on the kers, teams will make it more reliable.

[beelsebob]

What happens if the KERS unit fails though and there is no alternator?

Then they wouldn't be able to make a pit stop, as they'll have to be kers powered anyway.

[dren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gx6lchA7bg

You gotta be sh*tting me! He even slipped at the same place and hitted the wall at the same place. Synchronized crashing ftw?

That pretty much describes Bob Bell's reaction .

Go to 2.18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58P4d5 ... re=related

Haha, I forgot all about that. I used to bet on what lap Grosjean would crash on, the same with Piquet Jr. Petrov was solid after a bit of experience, just not super quick. I expect Kimi to go well here.

[Forza]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBgNiSNAas&hd=1[/youtube]

[raymondu999]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JTHreImhe4[/youtube]

[Dragonfly]

scarbs said in a blog post teams still use the alternator because the regulation says the kers motor can't power electronics. Probably in 2014 with the new rules changes the teams will get rid of the alternator

Thanks. That's the answer I was looking for.
The rest of you, guys, simply didn't read what I have written and jumped to telling me things everyone knows.

[marcush.]

I asked not long ago in another thread but got no answer about his:
AFAIK and according to Scarbs material, a KERS uses a MGU (Motor Generator Unit) which has dual function as its name clearly shows.
In the case of RBR in both failure cases they use strictly the word 'alternator'. Which implies there is a separate unit apart from MGU. And my question back then was are there separate alternator, driven by the engine and a MGU for the KERS.
Now raymondu999 says their KERS is DIY. Which again made me think about the possibility to use the alternator as an energy harvesting device and have a simpler electric motor attached to the crankshaft. Some kind of distributed system which if true would put more strain and electric load on the alternator leading to excessive heating.

As i understand the kers system has to be entirely separate from the rest of the electrical systems in terms of power generation and energy harvesting.
So you are not allowed to :start the engine using kers power in fact use KERS components for anything else than adding drive torque +use the available energy to recharge the KERS Batteries.

[Dragonfly]

As i understand the kers system ....

Thanks, marcush.
This is what I didn't know.
Although IIRC at the time the idea was pushed in, the rules draft included the ability to start the engine internally by means of the KERS motor.

Another question: Does anyone have an idea about the total electric power consumption of an F1 car in race conditions?