Regenerative systems

[coope914419]

Hi all. I am new to this forum although I am a long standing F1 fan My first GP visit was the 1969 British GP as a deleriously excited kid.
My first question on this forum is this. We are now hearing that the FIA want to promote the use of energy storage/release systems on cars. Obviously the best known such system is regenerative braking on an electric vehicle charging the battery. Does anyone know of any other systems that could be employed in F1? There would have to be some serious rule changes to accomodate these systems as I imagine there would be more than one form of motive power in many cases.

[pRo]

Hi all. I am new to this forum although I am a long standing F1 fan My first GP visit was the 1969 British GP as a deleriously excited kid.

Welcome!

My first question on this forum is this. We are now hearing that the FIA want to promote the use of energy storage/release systems on cars. Obviously the best known such system is regenerative braking on an electric vehicle charging the battery. Does anyone know of any other systems that could be employed in F1?

My first thought after the first news about using wasted energy, was a turbo. Isn't that the most common use of wasted energy in automotive industry? I bet turbos won't be allowed, but maybe the wasted energy in the exhaust gases could be used in another way, there's a lot of energy in there.

Basically any movement could be transferred into energy. Maybe the suspension movements could be used. Maybe even the flex of the wings and other bodywork. The car's also moving in the air, so a windmill could create some energy. Heck, they might even build a lever for the driver to pump on while he's driving. I'm not saying these would make any sense, just throwing out ideas.

We'll just have to wait for the rules to see what's allowed for real.

There would have to be some serious rule changes to accomodate these systems as I imagine there would be more than one form of motive power in many cases.

You're right and in the end it'll be all about the rules anyway. I feel they will be quite strict and won't allow too much imagination to be used.

[Ciro Pabón]

There is an extense thread on the subject of ultracapacitors or supercapacitors, with the curious name of "No Name Yet" that you might find interesting. Principessa brought us Mr. Mosleys thoughts on the issue. Spencifer_Murphy mentioned a lot of crazy ideas here. The 2008 proposed regulations have the following:

5.2 Other means of propulsion :

5.2.1 Subject only to Article 5.2, The use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine described in 5.1 above, to power the car, is not permitted.

5.2.2 The total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.

A little out of thread, this is also in the 2008 regulations:

19.4.5 A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise oxygenates derived from biological sources. The percentage that each component is considered to originate from a biological source is calculated from the relative proportion of the molecular weight contributed by the biological starting material.

19.4.6 Synthetic hydrocarbons or mixtures of synthetic hydrocarbons, which have been produced from biomass, will be considered for future inclusion into Formula One fuel, provided that a suitable analytical procedure is available to verify their biological origin.

I have not the slightest idea what plans do they have to use exhaust energy or how the rule about not permitting the "use of any device, other than the... engine" goes with an electrical booster that probably requires an electric motor.

[coope914419]

It's very well stating a limit for the amount of recoverable energy that can be stored on the car but how are you going to use this if the only method of propulsion allowed is the IC engine. The only energy that an IC engine can use is that derived from the fuel and you can't recover that. It seems pointless even suggesting that systems like this should be used in F1 cars without changing the rules accordingly.

[gcdugas]

It's very well stating a limit for the amount of recoverable energy that can be stored on the car but how are you going to use this if the only method of propulsion allowed is the IC engine. The only energy that an IC engine can use is that derived from the fuel and you can't recover that. It seems pointless even suggesting that systems like this should be used in F1 cars without changing the rules accordingly.

I am wondering about 4WD. Any system would necessarity involve "drive shafts" to the front axle for energy recovery, so could the energy be reapplied through the front axle as well? It would be hard to imagine 4WD not being allowed therefore.

Either way, yes, there has to be a major revamp in the rules.