Mercedes - the eternal debating abyss.

[xpensive]

...
It also brings up the subject of how important Ross truly was to the success that was had at both Benetton, and Ferrari.
...

Come on, the man is nothing, just another token that "know-who" is far more important than "know-how" in this world.

Hiring three technical directors in the same season, that alone proves he didn't have the faintest about management.

[SeijaKessen]

[...]

Someone could definitely write a nice book on the lack of management involved with MGP as a cautionary tale not just for other race teams, but for businesses in general.

[...]

The Anti-Kaizen: From Tyrrell to Turds

Wow, I really want to upvote this.

Imagine the kind of odds you could have gotten back in 1971 if you made a bet on Tyrrell eventually being a mid-field Mercedes team in 2010?

[xpensive]

When living in Norway, I hear that RB has been nominated for the 2012 Nobel peace-prize, but I don't believe that?

[SeijaKessen]

Why xpensive, I've been sitting here with a scotch basking in the sun on this fine day here in the States, and I got to thinking.

If Dr. Z and the Daimler board came to you and said, "xpensive, we have a problem. You see, we sort of got conned into buying this F1 team by a fat man, and we're beside ourselves because we can't seem to get results. Would you fix the team for us?"

How would you go about turning MGP around into a championship winner?

I've got some ideas, but being the fine person I am, I will let you go first out of courtesy before I throw some ideas out there.

[Websta]

They've already hired a Fin, so they can't try that

[bhall]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8[/youtube]

[Cam]

Ahhh, the shart. Good times.

[SeijaKessen]

The people who actually found the loophole back in 2007/2008 and figured out the outwash frontwing endplates are long gone or driven away to other teams .

Can you prove this?

You can feel they are desperately looking for the new unfair advantage.

Red Bull with their flexing wings? Their EBD's? The slot in the nose?
Lotus with their forward exhaust concept?
McLaren with their U pods? lower nose?

It is the teams duty to come up with ideas to give an advantage. If you dont have this creativity, you may as well just wave the white flag. This team are very much trying to at least get better.

Why Foxhound, the big difference between Red Bull and McLaren compared to MGP, is that what those teams do, typically works.

[FoxHound]

Why Foxhound, the big difference between Red Bull and McLaren compared to MGP, is that what those teams do, typically works.

Really?
How long did it take Red Bull? 4-5 years? Things don't just happen. Check how long Newey was at Jaguar and then Red Bull before they started to win.
Makes a mockery of this "team management" argument. Especially when you consider all the top 3 teams have vastly different management set ups.

[bhall]

When was Newey at Jaguar? I must have missed that one.

I do know that Newey's third Red Bull design, the RB5, finished the season as the class of the field, even better than the BGP 001 that took both titles for Button and Brawn. Somehow I doubt the W03 will be in a similar position this year.

[munudeges]

That's a total of 140million, which is why Brawn was forced to make the cuts for 2009. It was still not enough, and Brawn had to ask for advance of the TV cash for 2010, in 2009.

This farcical tin-pot outfit paid massive bonuses to their directors in 2009 and finished the 2009 season the richest team on the grid. I have grown very weary of hearing this nonsense repeated. They weren't doing any better in all their years as Honda and their resources and the pattern has been repeated as Mercedes.

[FoxHound]

When you get something for a pound, then sell it for 90million... You make a profit.
There's no "bonus", it's business. Nothing was taken out of the team, Honda took the hit and passed the concern on to Brawn.

Had Brawn taken money out of the concerns cash flow, as you are sort of intimating, then there is a case to answer.
But there was none, unless of course you have the accounts?

As for the performance of the team, sure why not, stick the boot in. Feels real good don't it

[wunderkind]

I think most of Mercedes-AMG's budget would be part of their global marketing expenditure.

If Mercedes-AMG should quit now, what about McLaren.

[FoxHound]

I think most of Mercedes-AMG's budget would be part of their global marketing expenditure.

If Mercedes-AMG should quit now, what about McLaren.

Easily. And it's part of the reason why Zetsche moved the team onto AMG....the figures they produce justify having an F1 team.
Not only this, but AMG have a stand alone model now, and looking at expanding their product range, F1 is a vehicle for them to grow the brand.

Brining EADS into this argument, we may as well also talk of Italy's deficit and Ferrari's participation, HRT and Spain's ongoing issues etc etc.

[bhall]

And I will counter your anti-pathos by suggesting you are in dreamland comparing an F1 team and it's associated issues with that of of concern Daimler has ploughed 10's of BILLIONS into already.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you?

Pouring money into a Formula One team is not the path to better days for any company*. Formula One is a luxury. If it was an effective marketing tool, they wouldn't be losing money, "effective marketing" meaning what it means and all. Honda and Toyota understood this. That's why they packed up and left the sport when economic reality meant they could no longer afford the luxury of fielding a Formula One team. It's called responsibility.

So, while you stand on a soapbox to defend Mercedes GP as an institution that owes something to its ~500 employees, I'm going to stand on a taller soapbox and question Daimler's handling of their other ~275,000 employees.

Don't be mad. You brought it up, and I appreciate that, too. You've convinced me that Mercedes GP as a business venture is immoral.



* Don't bring up Ferrari. Their financial rulebook is written in a different language on a different planet.