Schumacher Retires (again)

[PlatinumZealot]

After today I have changed my sentiment on who is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time.

I don't think Senna is the greatest any more. I now think Michael Schumacher is the greatest.

MSC has shown that he has a wider gamut of qualities than Senna because he made more of a contribution to the teams. What resonates with me is that Schu was not only willing to win, he was willing to do the donkey work to build that winning combination. Senna and Prost never did that. The wanted gift wrapped rocket ships to do their winning with. That for me makes the biggest difference. I only just realised this today after reading the Planet F1 article. There is more to being a great driver than what you do in the fastest car.

http://planetf1.com/driver/3260/8141313 ... hat-wasn-t

[Raptor22]

I'll drink to that.

[SeijaKessen]

After today I have changed my sentiment on who is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time.

I don't think Senna is the greatest any more. I now think Michael Schumacher is the greatest.

MSC has shown that he has a wider gamut of qualities than Senna because he made more of a contribution to the teams. What resonates with me is that Schu was not only willing to win, he was willing to do the donkey work to build that winning combination. Senna and Prost never did that. The wanted gift wrapped rocket ships to do their winning with. That for me makes the biggest difference. I only just realised this today after reading the Planet F1 article. There is more to being a great driver than what you do in the fastest car.

http://planetf1.com/driver/3260/8141313 ... hat-wasn-t

Schumacher's 1994 world title was a colossal fraud. Traction control and launch control on his B-194. Illegal fuel refueling unit. Schumacher also never had a teammate like Prost. All his teammates were put in their place, unable to challenge.

Kind of hard to lose when the deck is stacked in your favor.

You also have no idea the type of work Senna put in at every team he was with. Keep in mind, had Ron the Con kept his end of the bargain with Lamborghini for their V12 engines, there's a strong possibility Senna never would have left for Williams.

[marcush.]

I´m not sure why the world tries to belittle schumachers career .I just cannot imagine anything bad coming from him on purpose.The guy was just too concentrated or eager to win ,being competitive and that included at times to be a bit too opportunistic.But then this does not differentiate him from the likes of Senna or prost -surely from Villeneuve (Gilles) and maybe also his son.
His career unquestionably was supported by big names in F1 ,namely Bernie ecclestone ,who had to wait long very long till a german who filled the bill arrived and survived to win a title.
B ut to win it 7 times is another matter altogether and frankly speaking i never realised he was not asking for the best -but asking for the challenge -like a good sportsman should be like.

Just look how hard he is trying these days -already announced his retirement -back then Niki Lauda announced his retirement and not even bothered to compete in the next races ,he just went away..charecters different to the extreme.

[snoop1050]

nice comments from lewis http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19830039

Schumacher's 1994 world title was a colossal fraud. Traction control

i love how viewers know this to be fact when the fia's independant inspectors didnt find any

whatever makes you guys sleep at night.

[clipsy1H]

nice comments from lewis http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19830039

can you post it? Available to UK users only <3 BBC

[snoop1050]

nice comments from lewis http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19830039

can you post it? Available to UK users only <3 BBC

found it on youtube
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLFXdAiaXmI[/youtube]

[SeijaKessen]

nice comments from lewis http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19830039

Schumacher's 1994 world title was a colossal fraud. Traction control

i love how viewers know this to be fact when the fia's independant inspectors didnt find any

whatever makes you guys sleep at night.

Yes because the FIA was so ethical in those days.

They found all the software on the Benetton's ECU.

[FoxHound]

Senna was all about winning. He could be on a beach in Brazil, while Prost did the rounds at Silverstone. Week later he will climb into the exact car and within a handful of laps beat Prost's time with some spare change.
Senna and Schumacher where both Colossus, Schumacher had the extra technical insight. If you had them as team mates, I would still have Senna beating Schumacher, because Schumacher would not have the team built around him. He thrives in this environment of being the Uber racer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
But if you had to put Senna next to him, I'm afraid this environment evaporates.

We have seen masterful drives by them both. Outstanding achievers in the sport we love. We should celebrate them both.
Who's best? Who cares, we all have our views. My view is nothing will surpass Donnington 93. Some reckon Schumacher stuck in 5th around Spain was the greatest, and fair play it was awesome.

[Richard]

i love how viewers know this to be fact when the fia's independant inspectors didnt find any

whatever makes you guys sleep at night.

You might want to read this article by the lawyer involved in one of those "independent" investigations ...

viewtopic.php?p=293121#p293121
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php

[snoop1050]

proves nothing...
facts are.

ECU contained launch control.
was not software written by benneton
needed sensors that werent found on the car.
they werent the only team using that ecu.
they were the team that won the championship so thats the only team that anyone cared about.

an RBR employee on another forum once posted

"We pushed it to the limits and did get caught out mainly because we were leading the championship.
Next year it all gets reset and we all try to get away with murder again, its what we are paid to do."

he doesnt come across as someone low in the team either as hes arranged numerous factory visits for forum members and was posting photos of newey doing doughnuts on horners lawn as it was happening

RBR are practicly running traction control with there engine maps and it will be more advanced than anything benneton could have done back in 94 but noone really cares unless they are leading the championship.

people like to claim all of schumachers titles are tainted yet we just had 2 years of flexi wings and beneding almost every rule in the book and theres no cheating because sebs a nice guy

[SeijaKessen]

proves nothing...
facts are.

ECU contained launch control.
was not software written by benneton
needed sensors that werent found on the car.
they werent the only team using that ecu.
they were the team that won the championship so thats the only team that anyone cared about.

an RBR employee on another forum once posted

"We pushed it to the limits and did get caught out mainly because we were leading the championship.
Next year it all gets reset and we all try to get away with murder again, its what we are paid to do."

RBR are practicly running traction control with there engine maps and it will be more advanced than anything benneton could have done back in 94 but noone really cares unless they are leading the championship.

people like to claim all of schumachers titles are tainted yet we just had 2 years of flexi wings and beneding almost every rule in the book and theres no cheating because sebs a nice guy

Denial is a powerful thing.

I don't feel like writing the whole thing out but Tom Walkinshaw was at Benetton then. If you know anything about Walkinshaw, you'll know that the B194 was running traction control during the race.

In 1991 Walkinshaw was recruited as Engineering Director of the Benetton F1 team which subsequently won the 1994 Formula One World Championship. He was involved in the recruitment of Michael Schumacher by Benetton after the German's Formula One debut with the Jordan team. As Engineering Director, his role also came under scrutiny when the team was investigated for suspected technical infringements during the 1994 season, including the potential use of banned electronic aids and unauthorised modifications to the refuelling apparatus used on the cars. Although illegal software was found in the Benettons, the FIA had no evidence that it had ever been used in a race and no action was taken against the team.

The FIA claiming it was excusable because it couldn't be proven that the software was used during the race is the biggest fraud out there. In other walks of life, if you have something illegal on you, saying "I never used it" doesn't fly.

[Richard]

snoop - So the lawyer in the case say it was a stitch up but you prefer to ignore that and believe Max Moseley's version?

As for your examples of "cheating", all teams test the edge of the rules every year. The team that gets closest to the edge (or over) wins. Its not cheating, its simply exploiting the rules. It's like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. It happens every year and the Schumacher years would have been no different. We had a thread about it a while ago viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7180

Also have a read of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISA%E2%80 ... led_Brakes

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_Ra ... ontroversy



....



Anyway, back to topic. Schumacher was an unique talent in F1 and unique in combining that talent with hard work year after year after year. He was merciless and relentless in pursuit of perfection. Combined with phenomenal engineering talent* it was unbeatable. The trouble is that being unrelenting leads to a perception of a lack of humanity, and that makes a lot of enemies.


* - Edit to add - ie the Ferrari team, not MSC!

[snoop1050]

they found launch control in the software not traction control.

many "journalists" decided to call it traction control in their articles even though the fia never said that.

schumacher had a few bad starts that year so its questionable wether they did use it based on video evidence and if they did was it any good?

the best start of that year by miles was one of hills

[Red Schneider]

Anyway, back to topic. Schumacher was an unique talent in F1 and unique in combining that talent with hard work year after year after year. He was merciless and relentless in pursuit of perfection. Combined with phenomenal engineering talent it was unbeatable. The trouble is that being unrelenting leads to a perception of a lack of humanity, and that makes a lot of enemies.

Apparently he donated at least fifty million dollars to charity from 2002 to 2006. I'll forgive a few on-track warts for that. Love the guy.