2012 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[schumifan]

Does anyone know the relative pace of the mercedes in race trim? rough estimates of course

[JimClarkFan]

I don't see anything worth a punishment in the situation. When you chose only one run late in the session you knowingly take the risk of something going wrong. Raikkonen's spin disrupted the planned lap run of the rest and it's difficult to know when and where someone will catch you. Alonso gambled, didn't succeed, and then sought advantage in asking for penalty. Again.

That was a borderline decision, in my opinion he cost Alonso a few tenths because he prevented him from braking deep into the corner. I'm not sure however if it was intentional, perhaps there should be a ruling that in those situations where there is a yellow flag, or unintended blocking, the fastest sectors of that driver of the course of qualifying should be used, or something to that effect.

Edit - the more I look at the video the more I think it might have a bit of malice to it.

[kcsbomb]

Alonso is a whinger. Nothing against his driving (i think hes the best f1 driver overall) but everytime something doesnt go right for him he has to complain. If vettel "blocked" him then why didnt he seem upset at the time in the car. Wouldnt be surprised if he waited till he realised it was vettel then complained. It seems like he's getting nervous that vettel's pace is starting to reel him in, in championship terms.

Monza was in my opinion genious from alonso. Sure vettel didnt give him enough room, but he gave him much more room than alonso made it look. In 2011 vettel was given not much more room but he stayed composed and went wheel to wheel with alonso. Alonso appeared to turn sharply leftward to exaggerate how little room vettel gave him. Anyway its a grey area because the line vettel took was the natural racing line.

Vettel has been very unlucky in this championship. Two alternator failures. The penalty for overtaking button off track. Penalty in monza (same as DNF from alternator), and a drive through in spain for not closing DRS after schumacher incident. Malaysia was the only mistake on vettels behalf this season when he clipped karthikeyan front wing and had a puncture. Alonso was taken out in one race (spa). Vettel should be way ahead in championship. Hamilton has been equally unlucky.

Alonso's established his lead in the championship due to the weather. I believe three races in a row from germany to hungary and malaysia included at beginning of season where he did well because of his wet weather skill shining through. Thats a compliment to his driving but alonso has been anything but unlucky this season.

[Vanja #66]

Verge abandonned his lap but made no attempt to move out of Senna's way. In fact he parked the car on the racing line then cruised into the pits. He did this twice in the same run.

Vettel's lifting had to do with the yellow flags AFAIK. Alonso complaining about it is just his and Flav's way of trying their luck. Would'nt expect anything less from the Crashgate pair

Sure, Crashgate is always a valid argument... Even when a simple possible incident is being investigated, obviously without consequences...

After reading rest of the posts, and the video (the picture doesn't give enough), there should be some consequences. =D> to Marko, he has done it again...

[raymondu999]

Amazing the time RB has found as of late. Newey is incredible. Did any other driver besides Vettle use DRS through 130R? This is reminding me of the downforce RB had last year....

I saw Perez open it through there as well, so at least the Sauber had enough grip for that.

Man I really hope Kamui gets away cleanly so he car race on his home race. The Sauber is very fast, I counted no less than three mistakes for Kamui on his fastest lap, on turn 6, the hairpin, and he didn't use DRS through 130R, in fact I think Vettel was the only driver to do so. It will be different in the race, the Saubers look very competitive in high fuel, and if they can push the tires longer than the Red Bulls, then no amount of one lap speed will help in the race. Remember the balance of the car changes albeit slightly with heavy fuel, this tends to have an equalizing effect.

I hope so too, but unt unfortunately the 2 times he qualifed near the front he messed up the start.

I'd love to see Kamui on the podium, or perhaps even capitalise on Mark Webber's traditionally rubbish start from P2 and hold on for a P2 finish, especially in front of his home crowd. He seems to go well at Suzuka. But I'm not sure. Every time the Saubers have gotten into Q3 it seems they lose their tyresaving edge, for whatever reason.

Alonso is a whinger.

I don't think he's a "whinger" - which draws up connotations of a complainer. But I think it's more Alonso playing the championship game and capitalising on every opportunity of possibly penalising a championship rival.


I think the stewards felt that the circuit was too narrow to really do much. He even took to the runoff to actively go out of Alonso's path. He stayed on the right and did that. If he had gone to the left then it would have been worse, with Alonso getting slowed down at the apex, prompting further filed complaints. If he had gone over to the right and braked to actually let Alonso get through to the chicane alone (ie he fall back behind Alonso by the chicane) I think Ferrari would have argued that Vettel was doing a brake test. Given the narrow nature of the circuit there then the only thing Vettel could have done that was better for Alonso was take to the grass. Again I'm not saying that Alonso is complaining for the sake of complaining, but he just does his best to hand his opponents penalties. Button seems to do this quite a bit too at times.

[Vanja #66]

At the same time, man is avoid any possibility of being investigated. Can't know for sure, but if I was a driver in some of those teams, I'd very much like to see Alonso in front or behind me in practices all the time. Race is a different manner, not least because it's any different to FPs and qualifying...

[f1316]

...he just does his best to hand his opponents penalties. Button seems to do this quite a bit too at times.

I'm absolutely certain that all of them do it. Vettel, Hamilton, Schumacher, I've had absolutely all of them do it when they feel they've been disadvantaged. I think it's pefectly normal too.

I still think the yellow flag cost him more, but the two put together can't have helped.

On the tyre front, Alonso only did one run in Q3, which saved him a set. I've also noticed that generally in races - for example the first stint in Singapore - the Red Bull seems to go through its tyres marginally quicker than the Ferrari of Alonso. It's not enough on its own to make a big difference, particularly with Alonso likely to be in a pack and Vettel out front, but the Ferrari's race pace is also generally a lot better than in quali.

I still think Vettel will win but I don't think it'll be as foregone a conclusion as many are suggesting.

[Vanja #66]

How's the SC statistics for the last couple of years here?

[Raptor22]

if this isn't blocking then what is? Vettel got away because of cheap politics!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ8cnvSFQLo[/youtube]

I'm not sure but it looks to me like a slower moving RedBull with a driver looking it his mirrors, keeping well left on the track so as to not impede the unsportsmanlike Alonso.
Alonso looks indecisive but doesn't lift so how was he held up? Must have be handicapped mentally...


Another notch on the Alonso belt of cheap tricks.

[FLuidd]

if this isn't blocking then what is? Vettel got away because of cheap politics!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ8cnvSFQLo[/youtube]

I'm not sure but it looks to me like a slower moving RedBull with a driver looking it his mirrors, keeping well left on the track so as to not impede the unsportsmanlike Alonso.
Alonso looks indecisive but doesn't lift so how was he held up? Must have be handicapped mentally...


Another notch on the Alonso belt of cheap tricks.

You really hate Alonso.

[Shrieker]

You do realise that if Alonso had braked the way he had to ( a good 5-6 meters later) he would've rammed Vettel, do you ?

[marcush.]

Vettel was blocking the entry to the chicane ,I don´t get how he got away with this.

Why didn´t he keeep to the right and slow down ?

[MBilcke]

if this isn't blocking then what is? Vettel got away because of cheap politics!

I'm not sure but it looks to me like a slower moving RedBull with a driver looking it his mirrors, keeping well left on the track so as to not impede the unsportsmanlike Alonso.
Alonso looks indecisive but doesn't lift so how was he held up? Must have be handicapped mentally...

Another notch on the Alonso belt of cheap tricks.

Do you know anything at all about driving lines, braking points, etc.
Than you know that Alonso could have taken the chicane faster,
so he was blocked. No question.
Was it on purpose? I think so. Vettel also knows a thing or two about driving lines and braking points,
I hope ...

[Raptor22]

if he stayed right and slowed down Alonso may have run into the back of him. Alonso stays right way too long for Vettel to take that option.

Vettel behaves predictably and Alonso is clealry not impeded. There are multiple entry point to that hairpin which is why its a favourite for overtaking and controversy.

The stewards would merely have suggested to Vettel to stay right next time.

Knowing Alonso he would still have claimed Vettel blocked him. Its just his nature

[Phillyred]

Alonso looks indecisive but doesn't lift so how was he held up? Must have be handicapped mentally...

May have cost him .05s at the most. Alonso is feeling the pressure as his points lead narrows. That's it.