2012 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[PlatinumZealot]

Latest odds on pole:
Lewis Hamilton 2.25
Sebastian Vettel 3.75
Fernando Alonso 15

I didn't know gambling odds were allowed on here?

Yes they are, they contribute to the technical nature of the forum. Statistical analyses.

[PlatinumZealot]

Someone here said (Sorry don't remember who it is) that in suzuka, its difficult to get everything right.... There's more probability that whoever qualifies at the front row may not win the race always...

THIS!!

Car balance was oscillating all over the place for the drivers throughout the sessions. And still the race is not even going to be who has the best balance, but who's tyres are going to be more durable.

For those who are backing RedBull for the win, wrong choice. My calculations say they are going to struggle like pigs in the race.

[Raptor22]

Koba for 1

[marcush.]

the trick is not only the line you choose but the timing , speed and positioning of your car relative to the car that intend to overtake.
You might be dead slow but still crowding other people.
some guys are excellent in this others seem to simply not care others just don´t have time to look into the mirrors..i think Vettel is one of those who do this to make it just a bit awkward for others.

He could have easily either gone a bit quicker or brake a lot earlier to ease the situation for alonso.I´m quite certain teams like RB and Ferrari are fully aware how and when which competitor gets into their line ,so it is quite easy to tell your driver to be careful keep right and wait somewhere safe to let the competitor pass.

[banibhusan]

For those who are backing RedBull for the win, wrong choice. My calculations say they are going to struggle like pigs in the race.

And what calculations be that? Just for enlightenment..

[JimClarkFan]

so you've driven Suzuka?

Do you need to drive at Suzuka to know?

godlameroso is right, the racing line is to the left, you stay left as long as you cab before breaking for the corner.

Look at the Alonso video, he pulls right twice, one small pull right in case he went ploughing into the back of Vettel, and a second pull right but this time to make the move towards the corner.

Also look at the tyre marks on the ground 0.6-0.8, he is half a car length further over to the right. No doubt to my mind that he was forced to take a shallow entry which would have compromised speed into corner and exit from second part of chicken.

[Raptor22]

Vettel did make Alonso have to adjust his entry, if you notice, Vettel takes a much wider entry. Everyone knows that you hug the left hand side right before you trail break into the right apex of the chicane, then take as much curbing on the left as possible.

So , please explain how Vergne was penalised for keeping to the RIGHT!

Because some are missing the point. Impeding means your lap time was affected.
Alonso's lap time was affected earlier by the yellow flags, NOT by Vettel.
The stewards would have told Vettel to back off earlier next time. They would have had to at least say something to Vettel or Alonso would have been doing a Flamenco in their offices to get his way...

Keeping to the left is the only way to NOT IMPEDE the following driver because it provides him with a clear view of the apex. Keep right and yo block the apex and that impedes the following driver more (its a slight rise to the chicane and then it starts to descend just as you get there i.e. it's a blind entry.) Video games don't provide that perspective....

[Raptor22]

so you've driven Suzuka?

Do you need to drive at Suzuka to know?

godlameroso is right, the racing line is to the left, you stay left as long as you cab before breaking for the corner.

Look at the Alonso video, he pulls right twice, one small pull right in case he went ploughing into the back of Vettel, and a second time but this time to make the move towards the corner.

Also look at the tyre marks on the ground, he is half a car length further over to the right.

No doubt he was forced to take a shallow line.

The racing line is the line that gives you the best view of the apex. Old Racing drivers proverb...

[raymondu999]

For those who are backing RedBull for the win, wrong choice. My calculations say they are going to struggle like pigs in the race.

And what calculations be that? Just for enlightenment..

I believe smikle is using the same framework that has systematically brought him to accurate conclusions in the past, such as the 2011 Toro Rosso being the 3rd quickest car on the grid.

[banibhusan]

the trick is not only the line you choose but the timing , speed and positioning of your car relative to the car that intend to overtake.
You might be dead slow but still crowding other people.
some guys are excellent in this others seem to simply not care others just don´t have time to look into the mirrors..i think Vettel is one of those who do this to make it just a bit awkward for others.

He could have easily either gone a bit quicker or brake a lot earlier to ease the situation for alonso.I´m quite certain teams like RB and Ferrari are fully aware how and when which competitor gets into their line ,so it is quite easy to tell your driver to be careful keep right and wait somewhere safe to let the competitor pass.

Spot on.

[kcsbomb]

I don't really see how the penalties in Hockenheim and Monza were unlucky. They were not outside Vettel's control and he clearly broke the rules on both occasions.

I realise that hockenheim was his fault however i probably should of mentioned that the punishment was the unlucky part because i believe he was far ahead of 4th and 5th places and it was not a question of if he would pass button but when. I think the punishment (20 second time penalty) was too harsh and in that sense he was unlucky. But i guess thats a steward issue. I think its silly how they only have a few penalties they can hand out and they cannot treat every incident with some sort of discretionary discipline.

Well there's only been 1 wet race out of the 14 so far. Germany and Silverstone qualifying were wet and they helped Alonso on his way (especially given the F2012's qualifying struggles) but he still had to deliver on the dry on Sunday, and that's when the points are handed out.

btw apologies im new to this and learning the quoting etc

Yes i meant qualifying and with the tyres this season and when you have a driver of alonso's callibre start from the front he has the ability to manage the race and his tyres from the front. You see all too often this season the top two drivers in the race swapping fastest laps (between each other), but if they dont think they can make the overtake they back off coz they dont want to lose downforce following the car in front. In this sense those wet qualifying sessions played in alonso favour.

[vall]

This is all moot point coz already Alonso cannot set the his fastest lap on this particular lap coz of the yellow flag
So even if he was not impeded he cannot/shouldnot set a fastest lap
So thats why the stewards didnt take any action

I may be on the wrong here, but driver must slow on the yellow flags, but once they are past the accident place they can drive as fast As they like, no? I did not see the quali to know how much before the chicane Kimi spun.

[JimClarkFan]

This is all moot point coz already Alonso cannot set the his fastest lap on this particular lap coz of the yellow flag
So even if he was not impeded he cannot/shouldnot set a fastest lap
So thats why the stewards didnt take any action

I may be on the wrong here, but driver must slow on the yellow flags, but once they are past the accident place they can drive as fast As they like, no? I did not see the quali to know how much before the chicane Kimi spun.

They are allowed to set the fastest lap but not the fastest sector where the yellow flags are out. If I was Alonso I would have kept the boot in, the spin happened just in front of Alonso and he would have had a reasonably chance of getting away with it.

It's a bit of an annoying rule for qualifying, they should accommodate for something like that.

[Vanja #66]

Alonso's lap time was affected earlier by the yellow flags, NOT by Vettel.

Alonso's S2 time was infected, by 0.4s almost, no doubt about it... That directly infects lap time.

However, take a look at these times:

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... times.html

Alonso was 0.45s faster than Felipe was in S1. Felipe's time was set at the beginning of Q2. Scrlling down you can see that in S3 Alonso's best time (Q3) is somewhat slower than Felipe's Q2 S3 time. Not by much, but slower. So, you are saying that Vettel did not affect his S3 time with his (careless) slowing down... Time sheets tell a different story.

[raymondu999]

[quote="JimClarkFan"] I was Alonso I would have kept the boot in, the spin happened just in front of Alonso and he would have had a reasonably chance of getting away with it./quote]
Doubt it. Remember when Vettel didn't close his DRS when Michael (only 7 tenths ahead of him) harpooned Bruno Senna? He got penalised, even though the DRS probably would've come down a tenth later by Vettel braking to avoid the DRS.

I'm not saying the rules are soundly written - but I don't think keeping his foot in would have worked. They seemingly dont allow any leeway for human reaction time