2012 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[example]

After the race today I feel that my suggestions that McLaren will not favor Hamilton in the WDC hunt have been vindicated.

I've said that if and when McLaren knows of a Hamilton departure, then that will kill any and all plans of team orders - though others ridiculed me. McLaren has a past of chasing realistic titles, and if its unrealistic (but mathematically possible) they seem to just let it go. Case in point, trying to win the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with Jenson.

Lewis will probably still get the same upgrades as Jenson, and his engineers and mechanics will still do their best for him, but forget any and all possibility of McLaren hurting Jenson's chances for Lewis. Heck his developmental feedback is probably not going to be heeded any more - they'd rather develop the car more towards Jenson now.

Well Jenson is just behind Webber, Lewis winning WDC would also bring WCC. But I guess Mclaren don't like winning trophies.

[Donuts]

After the race today I feel that my suggestions that McLaren will not favor Hamilton in the WDC hunt have been vindicated.

I've said that if and when McLaren knows of a Hamilton departure, then that will kill any and all plans of team orders - though others ridiculed me. McLaren has a past of chasing realistic titles, and if its unrealistic (but mathematically possible) they seem to just let it go. Case in point, trying to win the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with Jenson.

Lewis will probably still get the same upgrades as Jenson, and his engineers and mechanics will still do their best for him, but forget any and all possibility of McLaren hurting Jenson's chances for Lewis. Heck his developmental feedback is probably not going to be heeded any more - they'd rather develop the car more towards Jenson now.

Well Jenson is just behind Webber, Lewis winning WDC would also bring WCC. But I guess Mclaren don't like winning trophies.

On the contrary, they do, so much that they don't want to give them to the drivers!

[radosav]

raptor22 said : Gotta love vettel. He really has a fantastic sense of humour. Alonso, clearly less than pleased at being put on the spot.
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why didn't you put whole video, cause alonso's joke was funnier at the end.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHTx60aifhw[/youtube]

[Raptor22]

very poor retort... victim mentality

[Hail22]

very poor retort... victim mentality

Really?

Perhaps this will refresh peoples memory...it was only a month ago?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQBwyxwCwaE[/youtube]

[raymondu999]

After the race today I feel that my suggestions that McLaren will not favor Hamilton in the WDC hunt have been vindicated.

I've said that if and when McLaren knows of a Hamilton departure, then that will kill any and all plans of team orders - though others ridiculed me. McLaren has a past of chasing realistic titles, and if its unrealistic (but mathematically possible) they seem to just let it go. Case in point, trying to win the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with Jenson.

Lewis will probably still get the same upgrades as Jenson, and his engineers and mechanics will still do their best for him, but forget any and all possibility of McLaren hurting Jenson's chances for Lewis. Heck his developmental feedback is probably not going to be heeded any more - they'd rather develop the car more towards Jenson now.

Well Jenson is just behind Webber, Lewis winning WDC would also bring WCC. But I guess Mclaren don't like winning trophies.

If it takes McLaren to swap positions for Lewis to win the WDC - then the points they get for those positions aren't going to change either. A 1-2 or 2-3 result for McLaren is still worth the same number of points either way.

I'm a massive McLaren fan, have been since I first started watching in 1995. But IMO Ron Dennis has a habit of holding, for lack of a better word, grudges - and burning bridges. When has a McLaren driver ever left for another team and returned to the team?

I don't think McLaren will hinder Hamilton - but I don't think they'd hinder Button to help Hamilton. I think at this point they don't care about Hamilton's WDC hunt. They'll do their best, they won't hinder Button though - if Lewis wins it good for him. If he doesn't, then oh well.

Other than a short burst of glory, unfortunately - there are no benefits to winning a WDC. The benefit is all in having a reigning WDC.

[CHT]

After the race today I feel that my suggestions that McLaren will not favor Hamilton in the WDC hunt have been vindicated.

I've said that if and when McLaren knows of a Hamilton departure, then that will kill any and all plans of team orders - though others ridiculed me. McLaren has a past of chasing realistic titles, and if its unrealistic (but mathematically possible) they seem to just let it go. Case in point, trying to win the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with Jenson.

Lewis will probably still get the same upgrades as Jenson, and his engineers and mechanics will still do their best for him, but forget any and all possibility of McLaren hurting Jenson's chances for Lewis. Heck his developmental feedback is probably not going to be heeded any more - they'd rather develop the car more towards Jenson now.

pretty obvious ray. Mclaren is probably trying to show LH who is the boss in this business. Without the support of the team, a driver cant go anywhere. I reckon LH is going to have more set up issue to come

[marcush.]

one would think with a driver having announced to leave you would not argue too much about setup details anymore and let him his way?

[raymondu999]

I don't think there was anything malicious in the setup direction. I think his engineer still helps him and so on - but they won't hinder Button to help Hamilton.

Having said that I don't think Hamilton is the best for setting up a car. I'm not saying he's bad. He's a very good car setter upper - he wouldn't be a world champion otherwise. Even if he isn't, he can probably tell his engineer where he feels things are lacking, and I suspect his engineer should have enough training in vehicle dynamics to help him set up. But I have always felt that a more touchy-feely driver a la Kubica/Button will be better with setting up, as their imbalance-averse natures have forced them to really hone setup skills.

It will be interesting to see how much feedback he can give Mercedes designers next year. IMO a driver who can so instinctively drive around imbalances will not be able to really feel the inadequacies as he jjust instinctively adjusts his driving

[Cylinder]

After today's race i started thinking, is Perez a rebound guy for Mclaren? have they put enough thought into it?

It's very odd how media perception of a driver's abilities drives the driver market. Perez was much hyped by the media as a driver that could partner Alonso at ferrari and give him a run for his money....and yet when he didnt sign it was assumed that this was because he was too fast to be a number 2 driver..........HOWEVER., someone on another forum rightly stated a few weeks ago that ferrari have a ton of data on this kid from testing and they know exactly how fast he actually is........Now it's been suggested ferrari's data shows he is not as good as the media believe, someone referred to Bianchi going 0.5 quicker than him in a recent test and apparently they have other data which shows that he isn't as fast as people think.

What data do Mclaren have on him to make them take him on board like that, interesting,...

[raymondu999]

The obvious caveat in McLaren signing him is the lack of active telemetry and the lack of any ability to separate car from driver in speed and tyresaving. But that has applied to basically every team move in history, save a few.

To clarify my point on Hamilton and team orders, I don't think they'll hinder him - just that their attitudes have switched from "get wdc or die trying" To "que sera sera"

[GrizzleBoy]

@ Raymond

I guess you could say that for a driver to be able to drive around inadequacies, he has to be aware of their existence in order to compensate for them.


@ Cylinder

Who knows.

How do we know McLaren wouldn't be perfectly happy to bring in a 100% identifiable number 2 driver, in the same way that Hamilton could never go to Ferrari/Red Bull due to them dedicating almost everything to one driver.

The top teams don't actually seem to like having two "dominant" drivers in their camp it seems.

[Vanja #66]

Wow, so much happiness for Alonso's misery from so many people... Despicable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bvKVyWOCCw

0:14 to 0:15 - Button crossing a 1/3 of a track width, Alonso moving slightly to the right out of precaution, clipping Kimi's wing. Unavoidable racing incident... Button could not have known the position of these two (otherwise i doubt he would have gone so quickly to the left), Alonso was sandwiched between them, Kimi was sandwiched between Alonso and grass... I'm glad he wasn't taken out as well.

OFF: how do you put videos, I thought twas just youtube button...

[example]

After the race today I feel that my suggestions that McLaren will not favor Hamilton in the WDC hunt have been vindicated.

I've said that if and when McLaren knows of a Hamilton departure, then that will kill any and all plans of team orders - though others ridiculed me. McLaren has a past of chasing realistic titles, and if its unrealistic (but mathematically possible) they seem to just let it go. Case in point, trying to win the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with Jenson.

Lewis will probably still get the same upgrades as Jenson, and his engineers and mechanics will still do their best for him, but forget any and all possibility of McLaren hurting Jenson's chances for Lewis. Heck his developmental feedback is probably not going to be heeded any more - they'd rather develop the car more towards Jenson now.

Well Jenson is just behind Webber, Lewis winning WDC would also bring WCC. But I guess Mclaren don't like winning trophies.

If it takes McLaren to swap positions for Lewis to win the WDC - then the points they get for those positions aren't going to change either. A 1-2 or 2-3 result for McLaren is still worth the same number of points either way.

I'm a massive McLaren fan, have been since I first started watching in 1995. But IMO Ron Dennis has a habit of holding, for lack of a better word, grudges - and burning bridges. When has a McLaren driver ever left for another team and returned to the team?

I don't think McLaren will hinder Hamilton - but I don't think they'd hinder Button to help Hamilton. I think at this point they don't care about Hamilton's WDC hunt. They'll do their best, they won't hinder Button though - if Lewis wins it good for him. If he doesn't, then oh well.

Other than a short burst of glory, unfortunately - there are no benefits to winning a WDC. The benefit is all in having a reigning WDC.

That's true. Do you think he should help them after they wasted his season? He probably will, because I don't think he wants to look like whatever people here like to say about him. But that's not right, Mclaren should be exposed for what they really are.

[GrizzleBoy]

Wow, so much happiness for Alonso's misery from so many people... Despicable.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bvKVyWOCCw[/youtube]

0:14 to 0:15 - Button crossing a 1/3 of a track width, Alonso moving slightly to the right out of precaution, clipping Kimi's wing. Unavoidable racing incident... Button could not have known the position of these two (otherwise i doubt he would have gone so quickly to the left), Alonso was sandwiched between them, Kimi was sandwiched between Alonso and grass... I'm glad he wasn't taken out as well.

It was actually quite avoidable.

Had Fernando not been trying to squeeze Kimi off the track (YOU HAVE TO LEAVE-A THE SPACE) and breaking the rules, that space that Button was driving into wouldn't actually have been there, nor would the slightest jink end up in him basically causing a race ending collision.