Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Dragonfly]

My thought also - must have gained enough force at the back.
Not as much as last year though. Today in the race Vettel asked the team whether they lowered his FW during the pit stop. Which I get as loosening a bit the front to reduce tyre wear at the back.

[munudeges]

cause they managed to regain all or most of the downforce (at the rear) from last year? Or what could be the reason?

An intriguing possibility. Something has definitely changed on that car, that's for sure, and many in the paddock seem to be more than a tad concerned.

[i70q7m7ghw]

What a surprise, Red Bull dominate a race and you reappear to soak up some glory?

It's all about qualifying for Red Bull. The DDRS they have introduced appears to have made up the deficit they had in qualifying. They have had one of the best race cars for quite a while, qualifying is where they struggled. If they get pole again in Korea the RB8 will win both championships.

[Jackles-UK]

Gary Anderson on the Beeb seemed to think that they were using their DDRS device to actually stall the top of the diffuser.

Correct me if i'm wrong but it was my understanding that the way that diffusers work (speeding up air beneath the floor thus creating a kind of 'ground effect' sucking the car to the floor) as well as the way they're constructed created very little drag anyway. Certaintly not in comparison to the beam wing for instance. I'm not intimating that RBR or Mr Anderson are wrong (although both have been over the course of the season!) but would it not have been worth routing the air to somewhere else (beam wing/splitter/FW) that would enable a more noticeable reduction in drag?

[raymondu999]

My thought also - must have gained enough force at the back.
Not as much as last year though. Today in the race Vettel asked the team whether they lowered his FW during the pit stop. Which I get as loosening a bit the front to reduce tyre wear at the back.

I think it's standard procedure actually. As the fuel weight goes down the lighter car turns in better - and reducing the front wing will balance out the increase in turn in so that you're back at the same level you're comfortable with.

would it not have been worth routing the air to somewhere else (beam wing/splitter/FW) that would enable a more noticeable reduction in drag?

I hear they're most likely to be blowing the beam wing.

[raymondu999]

Was DDRS raced in Singapore? Anyone know?

[AlpineF1]

Was DDRS raced in Singapore? Anyone know?

I think they tested it, Newey said its all about small things, he said the updates have been on before its just making them work with the car or maybe there is another device as well as DDRS, isnt there meant to an intake for it? i cant see one

[Kiril Varbanov]

Was DDRS raced in Singapore? Anyone know?

Judging from the size and the thickness of the endplates - most likely yes. Also, here's a close up of the curved elements that are supposedly covering the holes that divert the air down:



Including this device could also explain the extensive flow-viz runs they did, closely inspected by Newey himself.

[turbof1]

With hundreds of people watching for every little change on that car, I am appalled nobody took notice of it in Singapore. The weekend Red Bull defeated one giant community. Thumbs up!

I hear they're most likely to be blowing the beam wing.

Would make much more sence; you aren't going to remove alot of drag by stalling the diffuser. Even if you do, the diffuser is what generates the downforce needed in fast corners. I would like to see any f1 car take 130R flat out with a stalled diffuser.

cause they managed to regain all or most of the downforce (at the rear) from last year? Or what could be the reason?

It might be related to their DDRS solution; it allows them to run more downforce at the back without an increase in drag.

[WhiteBlue]

This where the blowing most likely happens, flow separation, less drag:



Image credit: Mario (@TechF1les)

You can actually see the slots in the side plate under the beam wing. AMuS said that Red Bull have admitted in Suzuka they ran the system in Singapore during the race. But obviously it is much more beneficial in Suzuka. They can set a higher wing angle and get more downforce in corners while their speed through the esses and on the straight is equally higher by stalling the beam wing and generating better diffusor sealing.

Ferrari could actually be close behind Red Bull with the development. Would it actually take intensive tunnel time to develop this kind of DDRS? Now that you have proof from Red Bull that the concepts works very well it cannot be so difficult to emulate it.

[Nando]

Was DDRS raced in Singapore? Anyone know?

Although the existence of the Red Bull double-DRS only came to light in Japan, Horner says the team had raced it before – and it was likely to have been run in Friday practice sessions too.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103227

[raymondu999]

Was DDRS raced in Singapore? Anyone know?

Although the existence of the Red Bull double-DRS only came to light in Japan, Horner says the team had raced it before – and it was likely to have been run in Friday practice sessions too.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103227

Cheers - thanks Nando. I thought they just made an appearance in Singapore FP but wasn't raced.

[adam2003]

can someone explain in simple terms with pictures how the its stalling the diffuser, also any pictures that show the different pressure in air as it stalls the wing and diffuser

Also how do they put hi vis on the wings? do they just put in a specific area and line of it and let the car go out?

[Coefficient]

can someone explain in simple terms with pictures how the its stalling the diffuser, also any pictures that show the different pressure in air as it stalls the wing and diffuser

Also how do they put hi vis on the wings? do they just put in a specific area and line of it and let the car go out?

You mean flow vis?

its normally in a weed killer style pump and hose arrangement with a metal handle and nozzle and is sprayed in a surprisingly haphazard fashion. The airflow then sorts it out.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Ferrari could actually be close behind Red Bull with the development. Would it actually take intensive tunnel time to develop this kind of DDRS? Now that you have proof from Red Bull that the concepts works very well it cannot be so difficult to emulate it.

Not much time, IMHO. You have to develop the tunnels, the vents opening close to the beam wing, and the holes inside the rear wing.
Then, going back at the wind tunnel, it's relatively easy to make three runs:
- one with base simple rear wing
- one with new rear wing, DRS closed
- one with new rear wing, DRS opened, with the vents

- one optional testing different AoA of the beam wing and DRS opened.

In RBR's case I think it's rather related to being able to afford more downforce via high AoA on the beam wing, and compensating the drag with this duct.
I have been looking at Vettel's speeds all across the FP, Quali and race, and he's definitely not on the top.

Red Bull's close shot of the rear wing on Monza: clean and simplistic -