Red Bull RB8 Renault

[WhiteBlue]

can someone explain in simple terms with pictures how the its stalling the diffuser...

I can't give you pictures but they are bringing air out of the end plates right under the beam wing. We have a picture of that further up in the thread. That airflow will obviously stall the end sections of the beam wing. The effect on the diffusor is probably different. I don't think that they stall the diffusor. It is more likely that the air from the end plates helps with sealing the diffusor air flow from the wing air. Remember Red Bulls tunnels? They have a similar task but together with the air from the end plates it seems to work much better giving the diffusor more of a punch while the wing generated drag gets reduced. So it all helps them to set higher AoA on the rear wing. I bet they must have spend a lot of time optimizing the setup on Friday. In FP1 Seb wasn't setting any fast times at all. He was doing some development for the race and that was probably the basic setup for the rear wing he checked out.

[Forza]

Also as Tomba spotted the car has new nose with slight bulge under the nose cone (like Williams, Lotus).
Interesting that nobody noticed it.

[adam2003]

can someone explain in simple terms with pictures how the its stalling the diffuser...

I can't give you pictures but they are bringing air out of the end plates right under the beam wing. We have a picture of that further up in the thread. That airflow will obviously stall the end sections of the beam wing. The effect on the diffusor is probably different. I don't think that they stall the diffusor. It is more likely that the air from the end plates helps with sealing the diffusor air flow from the wing air. Remember Red Bulls tunnels? They have a similar task but together with the air from the end plates it seems to work much better giving the diffusor more of a punch while the wing generated drag gets reduced. So it all helps them to set higher AoA on the rear wing. I bet they must have spend a lot of time optimizing the setup on Friday. In FP1 Seb wasn't setting any fast times at all. He was doing some development for the race and that was probably the basic setup for the rear wing he checked out.

Thank you for the explanation much appreciated

[Dragonfly]

Can someone explain how the RBR DDRS system is beneficial during a race and especially when the car is leading with little if any (only back marker overtaking) situations to open the upper flap.
It can bring an advantage in qualifying and starting from pole is always an advantage in the race but we saw that Vettel could easily maintain a gap to those behind through the race.

[WhiteBlue]

Vettel confirmed the obvious in the post race press conference. He never got a chance to use DRS in the race. So the trick obviously was to get pole without compromising the race setup. As I explained before they must have done very extensive race pace tests during FP1 with Vettel's car. As a result they added just enough wing AoA to get pole but also keep the race pace up. I'm sure if they had to start further from behind they would have had problems to stop people passing them on the straight.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Sensible point, @Dragonfly.
Their recent updates seemed to work better than others: the front wing has been discussed already, the chin nose, etc.

At this point, however, I'm still not sure whether the beam wing is being blown, or maybe the rear wing itself, let's say under the rear wing. I guess next race we will have more pictures to look at.

[Donuts]

Vettel confirmed the obvious in the post race press conference. He never got a chance to use DRS in the race. So the trick obviously was to get pole without compromising the race setup. As I explained before they must have done very extensive race pace tests during FP1 with Vettel's car. As a result they added just enough wing AoA to get pole but also keep the race pace up. I'm sure if they had to start further from behind they would have had problems to stop people passing them on the straight.

?:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/10/r ... in-suzuka/

I guess that they could have gone for even more downforce? Seems to me that there´s a lot to gain from this system.

Wow, is all I can say, since they chose a system that's going to be banned in five races time. What an amount of money they must have.

[bhall]

So, why do we think they're blowing the beam wing with their Daffy Duct?

[Kiril Varbanov]

So, why do we think they're blowing the beam wing with their Daffy Duct?

We don't to the extent where we can put money on that.

I guess two options are discussed:
1. Blowing the beam wing
2. Blowing the end plates near the upper rear wing (outer tips) - more efficient, IMHO, and easier to implement.

[bhall]

I guess I should have asked another way. What evidence is there that Red Bull is blowing the beam wing? I don't see any thus far.

[turbof1]

Can someone explain how the RBR DDRS system is beneficial during a race and especially when the car is leading with little if any (only back marker overtaking) situations to open the upper flap.
It can bring an advantage in qualifying and starting from pole is always an advantage in the race but we saw that Vettel could easily maintain a gap to those behind through the race.

This is what I believe how they added to that: they probably ran the rear and/or beam wing at a higher AoA. In qualy they would shed thay extra downforce anyhow due to ddrs. During the race they are indeed stuck with the extra drag, but with full fuel tanks and tyres conserving to worry about that extra isn't a concern anyhow. The extra downforce will also help at conserving tyres. Red Bulm always had a strong race pace car anyhow.

[aral]

Wow, is all I can say, since they chose a system that's going to be banned in five races time. What an amount of money they must have.

It is an easy and quick solution! No new front wing, no tubes running the length of the car. Just a modified end plate. And as it obviously helped them, certainly not a waste of time, money or effort.

[Donuts]

Wow, is all I can say, since they chose a system that's going to be banned in five races time. What an amount of money they must have.

It is an easy and quick solution! No new front wing, no tubes running the length of the car. Just a modified end plate. And as it obviously helped them, certainly not a waste of time, money or effort.

Sounds nice, why has'nt everyone else got one?

[Dragonfly]

Sounds nice, why has'nt everyone else got one?

Maybe because the number of people able to think out of the frame is constantly decreasing in F1. Possibly a side effect from so many restrictions.

[Donuts]

Sounds nice, why has'nt everyone else got one?

Maybe because the number of people able to think out of the frame is constantly decreasing in F1. Possibly a side effect from so many restrictions.

Maybe, you could certainly question why Mercedes only chose to stall the front wing, why not the back wing, beam wing and the diffuser at the same time? A couple of more "pipes" and voilà, top speed of 400 km/h!