2012 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[Shrieker]

I had a look at your other topic ray. The gap between Hamilton and Vettel/Alonso is 17 points in old money. Remember that it took Kimi only two races to close that gap back in 2007, and now we have five races to go. Arguably, he was fully backed by the team then, and now there are question marks over Hamilton/McLaren. But my points is, these things happen. And before passing further judgement over Lewis/Macca let's see how this weekend goes. Hamilton was strong there last season.

[MarkedOne8]

I see exactly the same blames put on kimi as the ones that were put on Hamilton at Spa:
-"He should have went completely on the grass"
-"He should have braked"
-"It was a lost cause, he should have backed off"
-"He shouldn't have qualified that high"
-"If he didn't raced in f1, none of this would have happened"

I know f1 cars are full with technology, but a glass ball to look into the future and get hindsight is NOT part of a f1 car.

hahahhahah True story!

I think Alonso should get penalty for this.
IF... If Kimi didn't braked earlier, then it will be pretty much the same scenario like in Spa.

We all know Kimi didn't wanted to make Alonso retire, but he has done perfect job.He taught Alonso that he can't play dirty with REAL GOOD DRIVERS.

[tarzoon]

you have to be drunk to say this was Kimis fault

Was Kimi behind?
Yes
Could Kimi have avoided the whole mess by not forcing his way where there was nowhere to go?
Yes
Is it Kimi's job not to run into Alonso?
Yes

Ya know,,,sometimes it's better to back off.
But hey,,you have your opinion and I have mine and I am sure not gonna inflict another argument on this board...it's all that happens here any more.

You see, it's really easy to be biased and play the devil's advocate.

Are they racing?
Yes
Is Kimi trying to do better than the bunch of milk-and-orange-juice-drinkers?
Yes


Is it just me or Alonso's car starts skidding about 1s after Kimi's gentle touch? I think the car was jet-lagged

[raymondu999]

I had a look at your other topic ray. The gap between Hamilton and Vettel/Alonso is 17 points in old money. Remember that it took Kimi only two races to close that gap back in 2007, and now we have five races to go. Arguably, he was fully backed by the team then, and now there are question marks over Hamilton/McLaren. But my points is, these things happen. And before passing further judgement over Lewis/Macca let's see how this weekend goes. Hamilton was strong there last season.

I didn't say he wouldn't be WDC - I simply said that McLaren won't be backing him as unequivocal number one. Especially not when they'd hurt the pride of the new number one in the process.

[foxmulder_ms]

I see exactly the same blames put on kimi as the ones that were put on Hamilton at Spa:
-"He should have went completely on the grass"
-"He should have braked"
-"It was a lost cause, he should have backed off"
-"He shouldn't have qualified that high"
-"If he didn't raced in f1, none of this would have happened"

I know f1 cars are full with technology, but a glass ball to look into the future and get hindsight is NOT part of a f1 car.

hahahhahah True story!

I think Alonso should get penalty for this.
IF... If Kimi didn't braked earlier, then it will be pretty much the same scenario like in Spa.

We all know Kimi didn't wanted to make Alonso retire, but he has done perfect job.He taught Alonso that he can't play dirty with REAL GOOD DRIVERS.

Definitely!!!! Kimi knows what he is doing. He gave a nice lesson to Perez, too

[foxmulder_ms]

you have to be drunk to say this was Kimis fault

Was Kimi behind?
Yes
Could Kimi have avoided the whole mess by not forcing his way where there was nowhere to go?
Yes
Is it Kimi's job not to run into Alonso?
Yes

Ya know,,,sometimes it's better to back off.
But hey,,you have your opinion and I have mine and I am sure not gonna inflict another argument on this board...it's all that happens here any more.

+1

My logical thoughts came to the exact same conclusion...whether it was Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton who was the one hit by Raikkonen common sense leans to the fact of braking or leaning off the throttle for the sake of avoiding an incident...

Where do you guys stand on Roman's one race ban then? Hamilton could have back off, too!

Alonso deserved a penalty for that incident. Since he lost 25 points, he kind of get what he deserved so... it is all good.

Funny thing is Kimi did try to avoid the accident by going on dirt!

[alogoc]

Massa was at times as fast as Vettel which means Alonso could of won there!

http://photos3.pix.ie/37/2F/372FBC66E6D ... 11D83F.jpg

[Vanja #66]

and the avoiding action taken by Lewis would have what effect?

Please tell me what your crystal ball reveals.

That's the thing, he wouldn't have avoided it. He isn't capable of avoiding people... Just remember Canada 2008.

So, know that we have both been absurd to the absolute limit, how about just admitting that you aren't correct with accusing Alonso and saying it was a racing incident?

[Shrieker]

The point is, it was Alonso's fault. Funny that Hamilton is being blamed for it hahaha

Hamilton's fault

[dave34m]

Massa was at times as fast as Vettel which means Alonso could of won there!

http://photos3.pix.ie/37/2F/372FBC66E6D ... 11D83F.jpg

I think Vettel was just pacing himself, I doubt that Alonso could have put too much pressure on him but we will never know and thats fine.

[beelsebob]

and the avoiding action taken by Lewis would have what effect?

Please tell me what your crystal ball reveals.

That's the thing, he wouldn't have avoided it. He isn't capable of avoiding people... Just remember Canada 2008.

So, know that we have both been absurd to the absolute limit, how about just admitting that you aren't correct with accusing Alonso and saying it was a racing incident?

Any driver defending his position on a straight and before any braking area may use the full width of the track during his first move provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his.
Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

Alonso was in the wrong, flat out. He violated this rule clarification, no questions asked.

[Hail22]

Where do you guys stand on Roman's one race ban then? Hamilton could have back off, too!

Alonso deserved a penalty for that incident. Since he lost 25 points, he kind of get what he deserved so... it is all good.

Funny thing is Kimi did try to avoid the accident by going on dirt!

I never doubt Kimi Raikkonen he has a very clean record with regards to incidents...actually most of his DNFs, incidents/accidents have occured either due to mechanical failure, tyre degradation, and the infamous SPA race vs Hamilton...too much acceleration which he aquaplaned and spun out/hit the barrier.

Indeed what Alosno did was quite risky...however looking at the footage over and over...he seemed to over react with Button slightly merging towards him hence pushing out Raikkonen.

[Hobbs04]

You have to be drunk to say this was Kimis fault

I have had a few beers, but kimi is at fault. He chose to go in the grass. He left the track, lost traction, and ruined Alonso's race. Alonso merely moving over on him is a racing incident at best. If Kimi doesn't like braking then qualify better. We do see Kimi making some dare devil moves that dont work that often. He is a brilliant racer i.e. Eau rouge vs schu but going that far outside at that speed in that corner would always end in tears.

Think about it, had Alonso let him by then what?

[Hobbs04]

With all that being said I do believe no punishment is the right call. This is racing.

[radosav]

it was racing incident at start, so there is no reason for punishment. the fact is that Kimi punctured Alons's tyre ''from behind'', after Alonso went in front of him.Kimi should have control his car better.