new mass damper

[e gaines]

Ferrari's new suspention for China will use an ingenious method of controlling the suspention damper settings. The particles contained within the fluid/oil within the damper are responsive to electrical voltage and changes viscosity of the fluid based on the setting of the voltage regulator. In a way Ferrari are allowing the driver to change the way the suspention treats the tires on the fly. They can quicken or slow the damper resonse rate.

Active suspention is illiagal as I understand it. Active would mean that the suspention would be self-governing and self adjusted. If at any point, a human has to act to make the change, it's not "active" anymore and dependant on human input.

This is interesting, becuase in a way Ferrari are working around the rules of "park ferme". They can qualify on super soft rubber and set the suspention to take the biggest bite out of the tires, but during the race, change the damper setting to allow for minimal tire ware by sacrificing speed. We don't know if this can be done by the "driver"? or during a "pit stop". Regardless, this would be a huge advantage over the other teams.

I don't see that this breaks any rules as wings and tire pressures can be adjusted during pit stops. And in fact they are not changing any moving component, but are simply changing the viscosity of the oil in the damper.

[bhall]

Where did you get this?

[Carlos]

I've seen this system too--it came out about 2 or 3 years ago--I think General Motors was involved--thought it might pertain to several discussions but never inserted it into a thread--I beleive they are called electrostactic shock absorbers--- perhaps use that term ---with a search engine.

Regards Carlos

[Carlos]

I believe the units GM was using were under active control with sensors and computer control,

Regards Carlos

[bhall]

I was just reading up on it. Seems the shock absorbers are similar to the Delphi-made ones Ferrari is using for the new 599 GTB.

Interesting. I expect complaints.

[Carlos]

Just found it using google--it's already on a production car GM's CTS Cadillac--USA Scores--this may not be the complete link--can't see it all in the little Window and must sleep as leaving in 5 hours at 3am to go pick up a 74 MG Midget from a barn in Ohio --riding shotgun with a friend as pit crew

http://www.deskeng.com/Articles/Resours ... ysics-2004

Regards Carlos

Search term "electrostatic shock absorbers" engine :Goggle

[DaveKillens]

I thought Ferrari may have found a loophole, but it appears the regulations forbid this.
Article 10
10.1.2 The suspension must be so arranged so that it's response results only from loads applied to the wheels.
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.
10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to the suspenson system while the car is in motion.
http://www.fia.com/..._REGULATIONS_show ... ations.pdf

For the FIA to allow such a concept would smack of bending the rules in favor of Ferrari. Any one rule could be considered a loophole, but taken in whole, I just don't see how this could be allowed. It's a powered system that adjusts the suspension, and it's response is altered by something additional to the loads on the wheeels.

[pRo]

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.
10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to the suspenson system while the car is in motion.

For the FIA to allow such a concept would smack of bending the rules in favor of Ferrari.

Anyone remember the tyre heater issue? FIA: Tyre heater cannot be a box. Ferrari: Our tyre heaters are in a box, they aren't the box. FIA: OK then.

I'm sure if Ferrari claimed they aren't using a device as described in 10.2.2, but a gadget, it would be perfectly legal. 10.2.3 is easy, just make the adjustment while the car isn't in motion, like between the quali and race, pitstops..

[manchild]

Ferrari's new suspention for China will use an ingenious method of controlling the suspention damper settings. The particles contained within the fluid/oil within the damper are responsive to electrical voltage and changes viscosity of the fluid based on the setting of the voltage regulator. In a way Ferrari are allowing the driver to change the way the suspention treats the tires on the fly. They can quicken or slow the damper resonse rate.

That was already used in F1 years ago after active suspension was banned and FIA banned it too. I guess that info is either inacurate or made up.

[zac510]

Dave, with regard to the 'in motion' part, it could be adjsutable from outside the cabin, thus not adjustable by the driver when the car is in motion, but adjustable on the grid or during pitstops!

[Reca]

That “scoop” about Ferrari suspensions comes most likely from an article published by Autosprint this week and written by Fabiano Vandone.
Fabiano Vandone is also the same guy who makes the 3d drawings for Italian tv during qualifyings or gp coverage and tries to explain the technical matters to people. Autosprint recruited him when they lost Piola that, due to the downward spiral in Autosprint quality, decided to move to the other Italian magazine Sportautomoto.
I’ve high respect for Piola, his ability in explaining technical matters and his usual reliability about the new solutions (for example he was the one that “disclosed” the mass damper with an article right before Monaco). A few times it happened he was wrong but vast majority of times he’s right.
Vandone is the just opposite, his “explanations” are about the only things I don’t watch during the coverage, it makes me go crazy the amount of idiocies he says and the way he talks for 5 minutes saying nothing.

Ergo, before discussing the matter wait for a more reliable source to confirm that Ferrari indeed uses that system. At the moment I’m very very dubious.

[vis]

bravo reca!

[zac510]

It wouldn't even be a mass damper anyway. It is just different damper adjustment. No mass involved, except the car.

But it could equal the mass damper in amount of controversy

[joseff]

Hmmm it does sound like a "powered element" and thus illegal.

However, if it's not adjusted when the car is moving, it behaves no differently from normal adjustable shock valving. The big difference is that this is easier to adjust, no need to physically reach the shocks.

[zenvision]

for all you who know italian, http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formula1/ ... done.shtml