Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[SSS]

It is always the case with Mercedes. They easily fall behind in the development race. Always too little too late.

That's a fallacy. Last season, the W02 maintained its gap with the RB7 throughout the season, and I believe the W01 did the same with the RB6. Lotus were the ones falling back throughout the year in 2011.

WO1 started as a very good car & was within a few tenths after a few races & then dropped off.

W02 also dropped off. The gap in Singapore was almost 2s a race & in most cases Mercedes with their SWB were putting in a qualy set-up & getting their car about 1.2-1.3s off RBR & then in the race they were atleast 2s a lap slower.

The same gap was just PR stunt.

Anyways its shocking how far Mercedes have fallen.

[kooleracer]

If the W04 isnt a championship contender, the whole crew of Ross Brawn should be looking for a new job. Its getting ridiclous right know. At a track nico said should suit them they are being passed by Toro Rosso. A brand like Mercedes being past by the basterd son of a drinking company.....

For 2013 there are no excuses, all the big name's are involved from the start and there no legacy of Bigois. I aspect a car thats maximum 0.3 slower than the fastest car in race trim. Without design flaws, like tire deg, aero balance, overheating etc.

But most important the team devolpement rate should be much faster, there that was debuted at the Valancia or Jerez test. Is still the car MSC and Nico are racing with only real update is the exhaust. The front wing isnt as devolped as the front wings of the topteams and even Sauber,FI and Williams have better front wing design's. Also the W03 difusser and floor looks pretty secondhand if look at RBR's floors and diffuser.

[marcush.]

may I remind you how MGP struggled with managing heat in 2009 and they just burned up bodywork when trying to blow difussers?
Even back then it was plain easy to google up the materials needed , the times of laser sintering materials like titanium had not just begun it was state of the art technology ...but they tried to make their standard resin system make do -or tried to cover with unsuitable methods ruining their aerogains by following that blind alley...
It´s like everywhere in life ..you experience people who are just working to make a living and there are some who are prepared to go the extra mile not only in working hours but also when it comes to being the very best..

[Raptor22]

may I remind you how MGP struggled with managing heat in 2009 and they just burned up bodywork when trying to blow difussers?
Even back then it was plain easy to google up the materials needed , the times of laser sintering materials like titanium had not just begun it was state of the art technology ...but they tried to make their standard resin system make do -or tried to cover with unsuitable methods ruining their aerogains by following that blind alley...
It´s like everywhere in life ..you experience people who are just working to make a living and there are some who are prepared to go the extra mile not only in working hours but also when it comes to being the very best..

I worked with phenolic composites in 1997 that were capable of withstanding the heat and were light weight.
i never figured out why they could not get high temp composites.

[Mika1]

Gary Anderson pointed out how simple the FW of the W03 is compared with other cars.

[bhall]

It also appears that Gary Anderson has been reading the forum.

[elf341]

In some ways, I admire how Mercedes try to go their own route and develop unique avenues of development - since being a copycat means you're always in a sense behind, and forging a unique edge can unleash some pretty intense competitive pressure!
But I think at some point you have to take a look at where concensus has driven development in the pitlane. Components such as vertical rear wing endplate strakes are on almost every car, and have for some of the top teams being a focus for continued development. Coanda-effect exhaust, and wide-and-deep FW upper cascades are standard features on *all* other cars. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren have all released multiple revisions of their FW endplate - the W03's FW endplates are unchanged since BGP001 days.

At this point you have to suggest that perhaps they have errors in their windtunnel, or simulation environment - what else could explain (1) unique paths of development that fail to shine (2) failure to acknowledge consensus components as improving performance.

[kooleracer]

In some ways, I admire how Mercedes try to go their own route and develop unique avenues of development - since being a copycat means you're always in a sense behind, and forging a unique edge can unleash some pretty intense competitive pressure!
But I think at some point you have to take a look at where concensus has driven development in the pitlane. Components such as vertical rear wing endplate strakes are on almost every car, and have for some of the top teams being a focus for continued development. Coanda-effect exhaust, and wide-and-deep FW upper cascades are standard features on *all* other cars. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren have all released multiple revisions of their FW endplate - the W03's FW endplates are unchanged since BGP001 days.

At this point you have to suggest that perhaps they have errors in their windtunnel, or simulation environment - what else could explain (1) unique paths of development that fail to shine (2) failure to acknowledge consensus components as improving performance.

Incapable desingners and staff?

[wesley123]

Has it been any different really? I cant remember something else than crappy updating, and falling back to begin with. I really hope Lewis can talk some sense into these monkeys, else he's gonna waste 3 years of his life there.

[elf341]

Incapable desingners and staff?

Perhaps, but they have had a huge turnover of staff. I know we're all naturally cynical here, but can so many people really get it wrong? Mike Elliot has apparently been head of aero since before the summer.

I suppose they did overhaul their windtunnel to 60%. But after these types of things, you expect big leaps in performance.

[SSS]

Has Mercedes/Brawn GP ever been succesful at upgrading during the season?

They have as matter of fact.

EBD upgrades last year saw them claw back time, and maintain the gap on the leaders Red Bull.

Not really. They were 2s off the pace in Singapore during the race and they s***ed hard. From Monza onwards to the end of the season their either maintained the gap or FELL backwards but never made an upward jump. So no they are patheic in that regard to JET

[kooleracer]

Incapable desingners and staff?

Perhaps, but they have had a huge turnover of staff. I know we're all naturally cynical here, but can so many people really get it wrong? Mike Elliot has apparently been head of aero since before the summer.

I suppose they did overhaul their windtunnel to 60%. But after these types of things, you expect big leaps in performance.

Let's just hope and wait for next season. I really hope to see a competitive car that is capable of winning races through-out the year. But when i look at the W03 and compare it to the RBR8,F2012 or MP4-27. The W03 looks really plain and simple aero wise. The car is tightly packaged, but it lacks Aero devolpment. With the addition of Elison I think the car package will improve a lot for next years car. MSC pole in monaco showed that the is good in slow conners and is really agile, but the highspeed coners where aero is really important the car is really bad. They still havent found a way to correct the aero balance on the W03 thats why they can't put on more front wing, thats quite worrying. Its a shame that Merc can get Rory Byrne to work for them. Aldo Costa was the assistant of Bryne, so giving him a senoir role at Merc is wrong i think. Also ferrari kicked Costa out and there is a reason for that. Same goes for Willis booted form Red Bull and Honda F1. Only Bob Bell has the real credentials to build a race winning car. Ross Brawn was more race enigeneer/strategy guy at Ferrari. So all those big names and only 1 can really say that be build a championship winning race car. Brawn, Willis and Costa should really fear for the positions if the stuttgart board, starts to listen to Lauda a lot of heads will start rolling.

[OppositeLock]

I 'm glad they've finally tried the Coanda effect exhaust: I don't like all the cooling vents. The attempt at a passive drs seems like another waste of time and resources.

[Coefficient]

may I remind you how MGP struggled with managing heat in 2009 and they just burned up bodywork when trying to blow difussers?
Even back then it was plain easy to google up the materials needed , the times of laser sintering materials like titanium had not just begun it was state of the art technology ...but they tried to make their standard resin system make do -or tried to cover with unsuitable methods ruining their aerogains by following that blind alley...
It´s like everywhere in life ..you experience people who are just working to make a living and there are some who are prepared to go the extra mile not only in working hours but also when it comes to being the very best..

No you may not because MGP didn't exist in 2009, the team was called Brawn and they didn't have blown diffusers but double diffusers instead.

[siskue2005]

He is talking about 2010 I suppose