Red Bull RB8 Renault

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RB7ate9
RB7ate9
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Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Blowing the sides of the rear wing seem clear enough, and brilliant in its simplicity.

The blowing of the beam wing, and please correct me if I am misunderstanding, has the following effects:

1. Blows the beam wing to stall it, reducing some of its drag but most importantly removing the low-pressure gradient...

2. ...which would help stall the central 15 cm of the diffuser where the starter hole is, causing a decrease in velocity, creating a high-pressure zone....

3. ...which would effectively block up the tunnels from the sidepod, causing the flow to re-direct around, ideally following a less-draggy line.

Wow. Red Bull, it stalls your wings.

[Edit] Great blog, thanks for updating!

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amouzouris
105
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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RB7ate9 wrote:Blowing the sides of the rear wing seem clear enough, and brilliant in its simplicity.

The blowing of the beam wing, and please correct me if I am misunderstanding, has the following effects:

1. Blows the beam wing to stall it, reducing some of its drag but most importantly removing the low-pressure gradient...

2. ...which would help stall the central 15 cm of the diffuser where the starter hole is, causing a decrease in velocity, creating a high-pressure zone....

3. ...which would effectively block up the tunnels from the sidepod, causing the flow to re-direct around, ideally following a less-draggy line.

Wow. Red Bull, it stalls your wings.

[Edit] Great blog, thanks for updating!
Not exactly a high pressure zone...just a relatively higher pressure zone..without the low pressure zone there the flow inside the tunnels finds it harder to flow through which causes it to spill and follow the alternative route!

BTW...it is not definite that this is what they are doing! this is what I believe they are doing!

EDIT: Thank you for the nice words!

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Forza
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Joined: 08 Sep 2010, 20:55

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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It was Vettel's third win in a row and there are lots of little reasons that add up to make what has clearly been a big step forward in performance in the Red Bull car. Red Bull did not start the season that strongly but they have learned a lot about the car as they worked through its problems and the effect of that is being seen now.

The front wing they introduced in Singapore two races ago was a decent step forward for the whole car. It fully focuses on improving the overall airflow - particularly to the underfloor, where the most efficient downforce is created.

Then there is the new 'double DRS' system, which takes the overtaking aid fitted to all the cars a step further by operating on the lower rear beam wing as well as the rear-wing main plane. It means they are able to run more downforce but still maintain a fairly decent straight-line speed with the DRS open in qualifying. It also helps get the tyres working better in qualifying, although it only works for them in the race if they qualify at the front. That's because you haven't got the straight-line speed you would need in a racing situation, but you have the extra downforce to help look after the tyres and give a bit of extra lap time to get away at the beginning of the race, as we saw happen in Korea.

Red Bull also changed the rear suspension geometry a few races ago to reduce the degradation of the rear tyres.
They have put more camber-change on it. That means they can run the car with less static camber, so the tyre has a bigger contact patch for better traction out of slow corners but the high-speed performance is not affected because the necessary camber change is induced by the suspension movement.

In Korea, they also had a new sidepod arrangement at the rear of the car. Normally, there is quite a big duct parallel to the floor which feeds the air into the diffuser to help re-attach the airflow through the central part of the diffuser. They have changed that a bit, reducing the size of the duct, which means they have a better 'coke-bottle' shape to the bodywork at the back of the car, improving the airflow inside the rear tyres.

The new DRS system is influential in this because the way it interacts with the rear aerodynamics means they don't have to feed as much airflow through the floor.

It is a lot of small changes, but if you're looking for one big one, it's the front wing, which has made the airflow over the whole car work differently.

Gary Anderson, BBC F1's technical analyst

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Gary Anderson wrote:In Korea, they also had a new sidepod arrangement at the rear of the car. Normally, there is quite a big duct parallel to the floor which feeds the air into the diffuser to help re-attach the airflow through the central part of the diffuser. They have changed that a bit, reducing the size of the duct, which means they have a better 'coke-bottle' shape to the bodywork at the back of the car, improving the airflow inside the rear tyres.

The new DRS system is influential in this because the way it interacts with the rear aerodynamics means they don't have to feed as much airflow through the floor..., Gara Anderson BBC F1's technical analyst
Thanks Forza for posting this. I always thought that the side pot arrangement aka the tunnels were connected to the DDRS. The whole purpose of the tunnels ( and to some degree of the beam wing) was to separate diffusor air and rear wing air or in other words: Seal the diffusor. This is the ultimate Newey strategy. The more efficient your diffusor works the more you optimize downforce to drag ratio.

Red Bull went to a lot of effort to get the tunnels to work and apparently they even sacrificed side pot width to get them to work. But with the three blow points at the centre of the beam wing and in the end plates at the roots of the beam wing they have found an efficient method of air stream separation. So it has allowed them to slim the side pots because they can rely less on the tunnels to seal the diffusor.

The article also points to a critical strategy choke point. Red Bull must gain the lead for Vettel or they run into a situation where the aero advantage flip flops. When they are forced to run in dirty air and when their opponents get the opportunity to use DRS their superiority in the cornering sections is lost and they get chopped up on the straights. Great analysis by Anderson.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Hobbs04
Hobbs04
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 19:18

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Three blow points?
Is there any pictures to confirm this?
It's interesting how the tunnel combined with DDRS has brought the RB8 to life. McCabism blog believes they are blowing starter motor hole thus speeding air around side pods and pulling more air over front wing. Even though the DDRS is banned next year the exhaust regs are set in stone, wouldn't the tunnel combined with DRD/"the device" be worth it trying by other teams lotus or sauber?

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Kiril Varbanov
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:00
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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For now there's at least one clear picture to confirm the slot on the cross point of rear wing endplates and beam wing, similar to what I posted a while ago:

Image

scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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There's two slots under the beam wing, one you can see there and another directly under the beam wing. As explained in my blog: Scarbsf1.com
Image

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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The red bull does the same thing in that section as they do in the central 15cm, they create a slot in the wing profile in that area, so they dont define the blow holes itself imo, but I am sure that area is blown too
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Nando
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Rear wing barely attached to the car :)

three small carbon strakes hold it up.
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wrcsti
wrcsti
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Joined: 06 Apr 2009, 04:46

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Nando wrote:Rear wing barely attached to the car :)

three small carbon strakes hold it up.
Looks like its held at the beam wing by the back end of the tranny

radosav
radosav
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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could it be flexing?

Hobbs04
Hobbs04
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 19:18

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Kiril Varbanov wrote:For now there's at least one clear picture to confirm the slot on the cross point of rear wing endplates and beam wing, similar to what I posted a while ago:

Image
Notice inside the engine cover a smaller hole? And what's the purpose of the ramp from engine to beam wing? I noticed this in Japan but this is the best picture by far I've seen. I don't see any other teams connecting the two. I'm sure it's another coanda style aero piece pulling excess hot air coming out into the beam wing, but why?

Hobbs04
Hobbs04
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 19:18

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11978&start=3240

Notice in this picture the W03 has this same ramp, but it's more of a sleeve covering the ddrs tubes. Could rb8 running some tubes forward?

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amouzouris
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Here is my drawing of the above photo:
Image

Raptor22
Raptor22
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I have a suspicion this car has been running a DDRS system since the first race. That letterbox inlet discussion was quietly displaced by the interest in the Mercedes DDRS. Could it be that Red Bull were struggling to get theirs to work effectively which led to some of the handling imbalace they had at the start of the season?