Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Here's a good one from AMuS - basically they're saying that the W03 is just too complicated for it's own good.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 22021.html

[Chuckjr]

[quote="MercAMGF1Fans"]Here's a good one from AMuS - basically they're saying that the W03 is just too complicated for it's own good.


Is that the natural offspring of car design by committee?

[kooleracer]

Here's a good one from AMuS - basically they're saying that the W03 is just too complicated for it's own good.


Is that the natural offspring of car design by committee?

I think Brawn&co are trying to be cheeky. The should take a look at red bull and build a car that can be used as an foundation for future rules changes. Red Bull uses the RB5/6 as baseline model and then look at the technical regs, to make a evolution that is legal within the new rules. With Mercedes i am getting the feeling that every year the try to build a totally new car, its understandable because management is pushing every year. But its not very clever. I hope next years car, will be an evolution without the negatives of this years car, because they car isn't really bad but it's more or less hampered by the tire deg and the side effects that brings (lack of downforce/ aero balance issues). If the W04 is a evolution of the W03 without those bad points, the team can finaly focus on bringing upgrades to the car instead of thinking about how to improve the main problems.

[allstaruk08]

i see all 3 Mercedes cars (after the Brawn) as being evolutions of the year before, this years car was a bigger jump in evolution than from the W01 to the W02 but in my eyes the W01, W02 and the W03 are evolutions.

[raymondu999]

I'm not sure the W01 to the W02 are really evolutions. I think there is carryover but I don't think they started with the W01 on the drawing board and took it from there. The W03 is clearly a product of the W02, legalised to the 2012 rules then upgraded.

[Mika1]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jpa8NQkL8[/youtube]

[mantikos]

Here's a good one from AMuS - basically they're saying that the W03 is just too complicated for it's own good.


Is that the natural offspring of car design by committee?

There was no committee when this was designed so take the tin foil hat off son

[mantikos]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jpa8NQkL8[/youtube]

A translation would be much appreciated

[Nando]

I'm not sure the W01 to the W02 are really evolutions. I think there is carryover but I don't think they started with the W01 on the drawing board and took it from there. The W03 is clearly a product of the W02, legalised to the 2012 rules then upgraded.

The Mclaren is an evolution of last years car, it doesn´t necessarily mean they have to start with the car or design a car that is identical in appearance or carry over parts.

[raymondu999]

it doesn´t necessarily mean they have to start with the car or design a car that is identical in appearance or carry over parts.

I get that. But I think there's an important distinction between cars that have parts carried over, or cars that are an evolution of a previous car. An evolution would take the final-spec of the previous car as a starting point, legalised for the next season, then upgraded basically iteratively for the next season.

A car with parts carried over would start from a clean sheet, then look at the previous year's car - "oh yes this part was good, let's reuse that. That part and that part too" then take it from there. For example the F2012 is so different from the F150 that it probably was done this way rather than taking the F150 as the starting point.

I personally feel the W02 was done with the second approach, just taking the good points of the W01 then redone from there. But obviously none of us have any further insight to the situation, which really makes anyone's guess equally good (or equally bad, depending on how you view it)

[Adamski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1feOgIpe ... re=related

In this interview they are talking about how they are focusing mainly on aero. We can see it pays out in some way (strong start to the season). Haug talked about the changes from the W02 to W03. I think it tells some way that trough the designing period they are focusing on maintaining the W02 strong parts and eliminate the weak spots (which correlate to an evolution).

They have made the car longer, lighter and more agile and at first sight it was good from the aero side compared to the others. They just can't continue to build on that good basic. They are trying a lot of thinks that didn't pay out.

I think Gary Anderson have a good view on that. He said there are too many big head on board and everybody has a different idea how to solve the issues. There are certainly too many directions they are trying to go but they are never sure what will pay dividends.

I think it's alarming that with a lot of new people they can't get work properly a Coanda style exhaust. Maybe it's a testing for next year and maybe they are trying a new rout which shows they don't need to go that way. If I'm counting only the last three years I don't wait too much from the W04.

[PlatinumZealot]

So in effect Mclarens "B" development team is better in developping their car then Mercedes "works"...

What has been kept me scratching my head is how on God's earth Force India is faster Merc's developments seem to bring no advantage at all or is it just me? Their new exhausts have helped them, really? I'm simply baffled by how this team works in general. They are trying a Lotus style DDRS. Isn't that gonna be banned from next season?

no... their DDRS is banned next season.......

The new version of their DRD is within the rules. I like to call it the "blow hole." It is similar to the Lotus system but more stable.

A duct from the air-box goes through a mast located within the central 150mm under the rear wing and this blows air under the wing.

[marcush.]

That AMuS piece does confirm -Ross has no clue about it.He is iterating about normal things of life that each and every race team /engineer is facing .It´s not specific to MGP .of course things happening at the rear have an influence on what ´s going on at the front and vice versa ....it´s not a matter of having interconnected dampers -a car is neither a pogostick nor it is a bicycle so things are always going to be complicated.
But :start to be smarter as you are and you introduce dependencies and multiple constraints that render a good result impossible.
So -a interconnected wing system to produce a balanced loss of downforce does only make sense when you actually HAVE
balance in the car .So the whole complexion is completely useless as they have to setup the car with massive understeer to make the rears survive... Would you leave the front wing alone it would at least help your balance in qualy... but it changes the balance towards neutral with rising speed ...exactly the opposite of what is needed.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

I know where everything started going down hill from since the BGP001
Jorg Zander- retired from F1 midway through 2009 - Loic Bigois, and John Owen took over, and made a complete hash of the W02, and 03.. Look up Loic Bigois on wikipedia.. (Mr Midfield)..

so it's all his fault - the Chief Designer at PROST!
Had Jorg stayed on.. the W02, would have done the business. Also it's true the team didn't have Money or resources (People) to carry on the development of the W01 in 2009.. but since his retirement, the BGP001 was caught up in development

[beelsebob]

I know where everything started going down hill from since the BGP001

Things didn't go downhill since then. The BGP001 was a high-mid field car that happened to have one cool idea on it that no one else had thought of. That idea, and that idea alone won it the championship.