A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Autosport wrote:Ferrari 'can make up lost ground' on title rivals after aero boost. Ferrari believes it can 'make up the ground lost' to its title rivals in India after an aero test helped it understand its recent windtunnel issues.
Nicolas Tombazis wrote: "The way aerodynamics works on a modern F1 car is hyper-complicated, based on the interaction of various components and very small details, therefore it is easy to make a mistake. Correlation cannot be seen in black and white terms and you cannot expect a windtunnel to deliver perfect results in all areas.
"We have had problems in some areas, but that does not mean that all our work in the wind tunnel has been worthless."
So can we now see the true performance gain by all those updates that they try to introduce but failed. If they understand the problem then it can be said that they can recover very quickly................. hope so.... [-o<
alogoc wrote:Today's Autosprint says that India update will be evolution rather than revolution,many small changes in all areas,all produced by Koln WT and comfirmed by straight line tests,and there will be a change to the exhaust!
Links tonight around 20h!
Hmm, i'm very dubious over this whole "change to the exhaust". I just don't see it happening.
Why dont? Tombazis itself already sad (Ferrari racing news n18 interview) that they will in india introducet "new" exhaust positioning...
f1316 wrote:
Or it'll be the kind of "one degree to the left" change that is impossible to make out with the naked eye (but could actually make a decent difference)
1+ =D>
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna
Hail22 wrote:Just to clarify something as I've noticed a few people lost.
The photo of David Rigon is from the Magny Cours young driver test.
There were no photos/spy shots taken of the F2012 12.5 Chassis that was tested at Idiada, reason for this?
Just like what they did at Fiorano they placed black tarp and at elevated sections they even erected temporary scaffolding/platforms to preventing people to peak inside the circuit.
Ferrari are very intelligent, what better place to test their car...high amount of bush/scrub around the track to keep it private and the FIA merely signed off on the test, no observers were known to of been there except for the main technical work group.
Shell has tested a new hydraulic fluid and new engine oil compound...Will the hydraulic fluid be that of the massive rumored Mercedes Mercury system? I highly doubt it but lets just wait and see shall we?
Oh and Alonso does do test runs with Ferrari:
First of all, the photo was of Alonso, and someone just decided to photoshop the red, so as to create a bit of a mystery. And it wasnt even April 1st! (was Remix responsible?)
Secondly, there was never any such thing as the Mercedes mercury system (which was said to be in the suspension), again just someone stirring.
Finally, Shell could very well be creating a new hydraulic oil, ( not sure why? ) but it would have nothing to do with the suspension.
??
No i can't photoshop sorry..i dont uploads photoshop pics...
And yes i read at a spanish website that shell tries to bring a new fuel and oils that bring
1-2 PS. They tlaks also that ferrari needs to tank less fuell becose they consume are lower
When I'm reading an Autosprint article, I always keep in mind that they, sometimes, aren't 100% reliable. Like in the beginning of the season, when they stated that the F2012 problems were caused only by the front pull rod. Hmm no, I'm not an Autosprint fan, because sometimes they put down wrong information. And plus, as far as I know, Antonini is NOT a technician.
You go onto the field with what you have. Do not expect a revolutionary Ferrari at the Indian GP this wekend. In technical terms there really shouldnt be big evolutions. Even then, the test last week in Span has literally opened new horizons. Davide Ringon drove the F2012 on Thursday October 18th. on the Isiada Test track in Tarrafona. A type of Super Oval with two long straights usually used also by RedBull. The last test of The Rossa (Ferrari F2012) on the same track was last June. That's when Ferrari was probably innovating more, tryng different solutions especially with the exhaust. This time instead the configuration is similar to those seen in the last few races. So why is this an important test? Easy: Because it was used to understand the aerodynamics of the F2012, directly on the track instead of simulations, that the aerodymanics fo the F2012 has problems. We arent talking about less aero compared to RedBull, we arent talking about a lower capacity to generate downforce. These things are obvious. No, what the test emphasizxed was that there are two areas that need an urgent intervention. We are talking abotu the floor and the rear brake vents. Inparticular the parts developed after the summer break, which are responsible for a smaller gain than what was expected.The obvious weak points of the F2012 in the end of this season.
The function of the floor, in particular the diffusor, there is no doubt; it serves to generate efficient downforce. The type of downforce where you gain only a small amount of drag.
The brake air intakes deserve a totally separate discussion because all of the modifications up until now dont serve to cool the rotors and calipers. In terms of brake quality, the team of Ferrari and Brembo has no equals. The air intakes in reality are truly there for aerodynamic purposes that use the vortexes generated by the wheels and channel the air towards specific areas in ordre to create a "sealed" channel that serves to generate downforce.
This is specifically what the test at Idiada was meant to do: to confirm the efficiency of the new pieces compared to the data gathered from the wind tunnel and computer simulations. The response was, in fact, a not good. It goes to say that some parts are to be completely reworked at the factory, and shipped to India. This means that at the Buddh circuit we will probably see an F2012 similar in appearance to the one seen in Japan and Korea. But with small details that arent revolutionary, but truly corrections to existing parts. We are talking about changes in millimeters that are in areas and components that can really make a big diference.
Honest question: if the floor and the brake air intakes were incorrectly designed, why did Ferrari need a test to confoirm this? Why couldnt they notice this from free practices before the reaces? The answer is, for example, in Suzuka the team couldnt find the time and correct conditions needed for all the tests necessary. Because the set of tires that they had became used up before they could get enough data and with a track that has a log of fast turns, losing a set of tires doesnt help the "feel" the modifications. Actually and this brings us to the same question, because the time available is the same for all the teams. How is it that Ferrari cannot optimize theose two Friday sessions that last an hour and a half? Because it seems that Ferrari start from a lower "base" oint than the rest. When a new part is installed on the car there isnt an assurance of how it is going to work. It is the usual problem with the wind tunnel, and it needs to be clarified that this isnt onlt a Ferrari problem. Mercedes, for example, has had an even harder time developing more important parts, that are also not not as efficient as they should be. In Brackley, the development has "suffered" passing from 50% models to 60% models like RedBul and McLaren use. In theory experimenting with a little larger model should give you results that are closer to realuty. In particular in reproducing the vortexes generated by the tires at speed. But with mercedes it didnt work like this. The W03 that was designed with a 60% model was actually a step backwards. Is it possible that Maranello has had the same issue with the scale models?
It goes to say that this test in Spain was necessary for Ferrari. But it can also be said that it is possible that the team has fixed it's problems, but it wont bring anything really new to India. There will be no DDRS, for example, that they studied and built and that surely is helping RedBull in qualifying, seeing as in the race, they have no way to use it.
The indian track, where they will race on Sunday, with the equal fast parts and sow parts, resembles Korea, and this isnt a good thing. it will go better if we look after the tires where here we have Hard and Soft, therefore silver and yellow stripes. Every time we have raced, this year, with this tire combination (barcelona, Silverstone and Suzuka), Ferrari has alwaysed been second. The problem is, that to win this championship, for Alonso, the runner up places dont matter.
Many speculations and not surprise me to see the F2012 just like the previous races. When you speak that will bring new wings, floor, disc brake I'm afraid! I am confident that Alonso will win the drivers' championship, but it will be thanks to its pilot than the "development package" team. The Ferrari just need to find a few tenths, Alonso does the rest. Actually, the Ferrari is in need of a good refresher on their team of engineers and factory. Need to bring new people, and competent. If next year, the issue of "correlation problem" comes up again, someone will need to be fired! And another thing too, Ferrari need to stop talking that "we will have new parts in the next race," this creates speculation across the press, particularly in Spain and with the useless Autosprint that misses nothing, and everyone is speculating that "the next we will exhaust style Red Bull, new floor, new front wing and rear outboard tilted (Alogoc crazy) oil, mercury, DDRS, revolutionary suspension and other follies more .... "
The Red Bull arrived where it arrived because not talking is what you do, just do it!
We have no indication that Mclaren will in the next race, or Red Bull, Lotus, Mercedes ... but but Ferrari is always someone have some information, from any source, who heard something from someone within the team ... until someone tests sounds schism that has!
The result is several baseless speculation, of every thing that the team never're thinking!
alogoc wrote:Why would the new exhaust burn bodywork and destroy engine and alternator? Dont ask about source!
New exhaust changes hot air flow so if you get hot air to blow on your tires, bodywork or breaks too much or too near the things get hot...
engine and alternators cannot be destroyed by exhaust...sidepod changes could however as change of air-flow through cooling devices could disrupt cooling and then the things get hot again
ecapox wrote:The fact that Autosport.com now limits you to only 30 articles as a non-paid viewer is complete bullship. Time to remove them from my list of good websites.
Simple solution! PAY UP! But what has this to do with the F2012?
[/URL]