Ferrari F2012

[Ferrari2183]

You can't really compare qualifying pace to race pace. In the race they run at much lower average speeds and downforce squares with speed, meaning the faster you go the more downforce you generate. Ferrari's downforce deficiency is simply not as noticeable in race trim and it has been this way pretty much since 2010.

Also in the race, assuming no DRS, the efficiency when the wing is closed is what matters and it is quite possible that the Ferrari wing works like a charm when closed.

Yes you can and have to compare the Quali pace versus the race pace. It's exactly what AMuS is doing & something the drivers do each weekend. That is the problem. In Quali Ferrari can't match the pace of its rivals however in the race it can(more or less). Therefore a distinction has to be made as to what is the root cause of the problem. AMuS says it doesn't shed enough drag when the DRS is open. That may or may not be true but you certainly have to compare why you're(the team) competitive in one setting & not the other.

The root cause is less downforce. Whether it be the Red Bull running more AoA due to a more efficient DRS or the total package simply producing more is up for debate but make no mistake, it is about downforce and its effect at quali and race speed coupled with the tyre effect.

We're talking about fine margins here, unlike the advantage Red Bull enjoyed at the majority of tracks last year.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

The root cause is less downforce. Whether it be the Red Bull running more AoA due to a more efficient DRS or the total package simply producing more is up for debate but make no mistake, it is about downforce and its effect at quali and race speed coupled with the tyre effect.

We're talking about fine margins here, unlike the advantage Red Bull enjoyed at the majority of tracks last year.

You nor I know what the root cause is. It could be many different things or a combination of other things. I'll leave it there because anything else is pure speculation.

[Sevach]

The issue here is ratio of how much drag the car produces with DRS on vs with DRS off.

Ferrari had impressive top speed in India without the use of DRS, Massa could fend Kimi in the DRS zone easily, Alonso outran the Mclarens on lap 1 (KERS might have something to do with it, though), certainly faster than the RBRs too.
The fact that the Ferrari is so slippery(drag wise, not grip wise) on race day is a positive no doubt.

The issue AMUS brings is that other teams might be gaining more from DRS activation (which is completely free and unrestricted in qualy), the speed delta between DRS on and off for them is bigger, meaning that under qualy rules their top speed is a lot closer to Ferrari's than in the race.

[Kiril Varbanov]

In regards to DRS usage and stuff, I made small compilation of what's available, with DRS open. The image:


And the full size here.

I know these are all different angles and zoom ratios, but that's what can be shown.
These are all from Q session in India.
Speed traps from Q (for those shown on the overlay):

1. MAS 319.9
2. ALO 319.8
3. HAM 318.6
4. SEN 318.5
5. KOB 318.1
6. MSC 317.4
7. VET 311.7

Last: RAI 310.4
First: VER 323.2

Some 5 AM obvious stuff:
- Mclaren is running the biggest Gurney flap, as opposed to RBR and Sauber - they feature the smallest.
- Sauber and Ferrari main planes are looking similar, except for the louvers - slanted ones as on Red Bull.
- The rest of the shown are using horizontal louvers (used to equalize pressure)
- Mercedes' and RBR end plates are thickest (understandable)
- Ferrari are running the most louvers - 6 slots, had been reduced to 4 according to the track.
- the DRS slot gap looks the smallest as height at Ferrari (could be wrong due to angles)

[raymondu999]

Would Quali speedtrap really be a reliable statistic? Some teams will undoubtedly choose to gear for the race, some will gear for the qualifying lap

[Kiril Varbanov]

Would Quali speedtrap really be a reliable statistic?

Not fully, but it's still an ingredient to tell you who has what setup. Back in India Q VET and WEB have dominated S2 and S3, while HAM, BUT and MAS to some extent S1. Alonso was out of this game.

Both VET and WEB destroy the competition in the third sector, where there are three high-downforce aero turns, which are taken in 3,4 and 5-th gear - this where RBR were gaining 0.2-0.3 alone. Then, despite the low top speed, they were able to shed some drag using their version of DDRS, although having high-downforce setup and short 7-th gear.

Ferrari (F2012) apparently had a setup more oriented to top speed - perhaps because they know where their weakness is, and just made a compromise. I do not necessarily agree with AMuS about their DRS theory for F2012.

More shall be revealed in Abu Dhabi this weekend, as I don't expect Ferrari to bring lots of updates, while the track itself has split personality with two long straights at the back, and many slow turns, so, let's see.

[aral]

All teams set their cars up differently, and it is only the ultimate lap time that has any relevance. But why, oh why, can we not keep the thread on topic?

[stefan_]

Abu Dhabi

[f1316]

I think it's quite logical that a more efficient DRS would have a quali-specific benefit which would therefore translate to the car with the least efficient DRS closing that performance gap in the race.

Whether or not this translates to the entirely, let's say, 0.4s advantage RB has in qualifying is debatable. However, I would contend that RB still has a couple of tenths or so advantage during the races. They're able to pull away fairly easily at the start when they need to, and when the Ferrari's been catching in the second stint, it seems to me to be more a case of RB conserving - Vettel's always seems able to set a new fastest lap from time to time to bolster the lead.

So, let's say a 0.2s quali differntial from pure DRS? I'm not sure that's out of the question. Assuming the speed differatial figures posted before are accurate (Ferrari with a 4kph difference as opposed to around 10 or so for other teams) I'd say it could be about right.

[diffuser]

I think it's quite logical that a more efficient DRS would have a quali-specific benefit which would therefore translate to the car with the least efficient DRS closing that performance gap in the race.

Whether or not this translates to the entirely, let's say, 0.4s advantage RB has in qualifying is debatable. However, I would contend that RB still has a couple of tenths or so advantage during the races. They're able to pull away fairly easily at the start when they need to, and when the Ferrari's been catching in the second stint, it seems to me to be more a case of RB conserving - Vettel's always seems able to set a new fastest lap from time to time to bolster the lead.

So, let's say a 0.2s quali differntial from pure DRS? I'm not sure that's out of the question. Assuming the speed differatial figures posted before are accurate (Ferrari with a 4kph difference as opposed to around 10 or so for other teams) I'd say it could be about right.

I believe the biggest equalizer in the race is what Hamilton complains about every so often. The can't go full out for every lap during a race, whether they started with less fuel to get off the line faster, or conserving tires to prevent and xtra pitstop, it equalizes race pace.

[munudeges]

The can't go full out for every lap during a race, whether they started with less fuel to get off the line faster, or conserving tires to prevent and xtra pitstop, it equalizes race pace.

That's about the size of it. Everyone is limited by how fast they can go, and the minimum speed they need to go in Red Bull's case, but it doesn't tell you how fast a car is capable of going should it need to. Teams also have to conserve gearboxes and engines so they are never going to push harder than the minimum they need to do. If you have a fast car then you do the absolute minimum necessary and it pays you back in terms of better component longevity.

This whole 'things don't look as bad in the race' way of looking at things is complete baloney.

[remix]

Hi guys

the page thef1.com after every race puts u diagramm with the average lap speed of the cars (notice: without Pitstops)

U can see Alonso was only 0.1 behind vettel

hier the image:
http://www.caranddriverthef1.com/formul ... ia-f1-2012

[jonaliew]

Loic Bigois starts at Ferrari

GoCar understands that Loic Bigois is a member of Ferrari as of today. The reports that emerged after his split with Mercedes GP last summer in Autosprint and Auto Hebdo came true.

His contract with the Mercedes GP team expired yesterday and Bigois is understood to have started his new job at Maranello. His title will be most probably Head of Aerodynamics, although we don’t have a confirmation from the team as yet.

Bigois started his F1 career back in 1990 as head of the design office at Ligier. From here on he passed through Sauber andLigier/Prost before becoming deputy technical director at Prost F1 Team in 2000.

In 2004 he joined Williams and he became chief aerodynamicist in 2007. Thereafter he went to Honda from 2007 and he kept his role as chief aerodynamicist until June 2012. His role at Mercedes GP was taken over by Mike Elliot.

The role of the Head of aerodynamics at Ferrari has been the focus of attention over couple of years, with John Iley and then Marco de Luca holding the post. John Iley left for McLaren and later to Caterham, while Marco de Luca was sidelined to work on GT cars.

Tombazis held the role as Head of Aerodynamics and Chief Designer until now. So he will focus solely on his work as Chief Designer from now on.

http://www.gocar.gr/races/f1/8684,Lo...t_Ferrari.html

Anyone read this?

[Hail22]

Loic Bigois starts at Ferrari


http://www.gocar.gr/races/f1/8684,Lo...t_Ferrari.html

Anyone read this?

Apparently he started work at Ferrari as of September...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... is-report/

[marcush.]

The can't go full out for every lap during a race, whether they started with less fuel to get off the line faster, or conserving tires to prevent and xtra pitstop, it equalizes race pace.

That's about the size of it. Everyone is limited by how fast they can go, and the minimum speed they need to go in Red Bull's case, but it doesn't tell you how fast a car is capable of going should it need to. Teams also have to conserve gearboxes and engines so they are never going to push harder than the minimum they need to do. If you have a fast car then you do the absolute minimum necessary and it pays you back in terms of better component longevity.

This whole 'things don't look as bad in the race' way of looking at things is complete baloney.

the quirk herin is:the teams are shortfueling their car ,so the idea RedBull could simply pull out the stops and go a sustained quicker pace over a race is not reality.
And that´s basically the reason why it may look easy to control the pace but suddenly when you feel the heat from behind the problems start...you need to fill her up a litlle bit more -sacrificing ultimate speed as the race starts ,this compromises your setup ,your start will be a bit more knife edge and suddenly the whole dominance falls apart...