2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Cylinder
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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NathanOlder wrote:He would leave smiling regardless, but its not looking good for you Alonso fans.
Well it seems there is no penalty, so championship over now as far as I am concerned. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari imo, Alonso has had enough of the excuses and I expect Luca has had enough now, massive waste of the best driver in this sport today, tragic to watch as a fan every week.

mzivtins
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Lurk wrote: Talking about penalty, I don't get what it is so difficult for some to understand:
- not enough fuel: DSQ
- gearbox change: 5 place penalty
- engine change: no penalty except if you mount your 9th fresh engine (10 place penalty). Engine which was replaced could not be used during qualifying session or race anymore.
- driver change: err... nevermind, qualifying are over.
- anything else : no penalty
Quite condescending there...

A lot of us wanted clarification over the engine change rule, and what would happen in an engine change to a previous unit happened under parc ferme...

Well thank you for you late response to us guys that find this 'hard to understand'

But what is funny... is '- anything else : no penalty'
Oh so, the cars can run ride height at 5mm? have the cars enter parc ferme underweight etc etc etc.... it is blase posts like this which lead us all to hunt for clarification before making assumptions.

And to even further add insult to us 'not understanding' what on earth do you mean driver change nevermind? are you saying if Hamilton swapped out with Paffet that Paffet would start tomorrow on pole? :lol: :roll:

JimClarkFan
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Cylinder wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:He would leave smiling regardless, but its not looking good for you Alonso fans.
Well it seems there is no penalty, so championship over now as far as I am concerned. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari imo, Alonso has had enough of the excuses and I expect Luca has had enough now, massive waste of the best driver in this sport today, tragic to watch as a fan every week.
Agreed 100%

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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JimClarkFan wrote:
Cylinder wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:He would leave smiling regardless, but its not looking good for you Alonso fans.
Well it seems there is no penalty, so championship over now as far as I am concerned. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari imo, Alonso has had enough of the excuses and I expect Luca has had enough now, massive waste of the best driver in this sport today, tragic to watch as a fan every week.
Agreed 100%
a VET DNF or ALO finishing infront of VET can always happen tomorrow
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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As it turns out Newey registered this year car as a low orbiting satellite which means they are not prone to those regulations. Don't worry though because in 2024 the loophole will be closed but no one else can use it in the mean time.
Newey, you Sir, are a genius... :lol:

Seems there is no further action for Vettel.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Yeah I could be wrong about the required amount of fuel for the sample; just taking figures over from others here.
#AeroFrodo

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Lurk
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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@mzivtins: Sorry english is not my native language, didn't mean to be condescending.
But to respond to your questions (without any condescension), "anything else" was relative to a change on the car due to technical failure, not to FIA checks. And "nevermind, qualifying are over" means "it is too late to replace a driver"...

Gerhard Berger
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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It's difficult for Alonso but not as bad as some make out. He is 4 places behind Vettel (just like India), though this time it looks unlikely that Vettel will drive off into the distance.

ESPImperium
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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From Tech Regs:
6.5 Refuelling :

6.5.1 A cover must be fitted over any refuelling connector at all times when the car is running on the track. The cover and its attachments must be sufficiently strong to avoid accidental opening in the event of an accident.

6.5.2 No fuel intended for immediate use in a car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature. When assessing compliance, the ambient temperature will be that recorded by the FIA appointed weather service provider one hour before any practice session or two hours before the race. This information will also be displayed on the timing monitors.

The temperature of fuel intended for use in a car must be measured via an FIA approved and sealed sensor.

6.5.3 The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden.

6.6 Fuel draining and sampling :

6.6.1 Competitors must provide a means of removing all fuel from the car.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

6.6.3 All cars must be fitted with a –2 'Symetrics' male fitting in order to facilitate fuel sampling. If an electric pump on board the car cannot be used to remove the fuel an externally connected one may be used provided it is evident that a representative fuel sample is being taken. If an external pump is used it must be possible to connect the FIA sampling hose to it and any hose between the car and pump must be -3 in diameter and not exceed 2m in length. Details of the fuel sampling hose may be found in the Appendix to these regulations.

6.6.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the cover over any refuelling connector).
9.7 Fuel approval :

19.7.1 Before any fuel may be used in an Event, two separate five litre samples, in suitable
containers, must be submitted to the FIA for analysis and approval.

19.7.2 No fuel may be used in an Event without prior written approval of the FIA.

19.8 Sampling and testing at an Event:

19.8.1 All samples will be taken in accordance with the FIA Formula One fuel sampling procedure, a copy of which may be found in the Appendix to these regulations.

19.8.2 Fuel samples taken during an Event will be checked for conformity by using a gas chromatographic technique, which will compare the sample taken with an approved fuel. Samples which differ from the approved fuel in a manner consistent with evaporative loss, will be considered to conform. However, the FIA retains the right to subject the fuel sample to further testing at an FIA approved laboratory.

19.8.3 GC peak areas of the sample will be compared with those obtained from the reference fuel. Increases in any given peak area (relative to its adjacent peak areas) which are greater than 12%, or an absolute amount greater than 0.1% for compounds present at concentrations below 0.8%, will be deemed not to comply.
If a peak is detected in a fuel sample that was absent in the corresponding reference fuel, and its peak area represents more than 0.10% of the summed peak areas of the fuel, the fuel will be deemed not to comply.
If the deviations observed (above) by GC indicate that they are due to mixing with another Formula One fuel, which has been approved by the FIA for use by the team, the fuel sample will be deemed to comply, provided that the adulterant fuel is present at no more than 10% in the sample.
From Sporting Regs:
29) REFUELLING
29.1 a)
b) No car may be refuelled after it has left the pit lane to start the first reconnaissance lap
permitted under Article 38.1.
c) Fuel may not be added to nor removed from a car during a race.

29.2 No car may be refuelled, nor may fuel be removed from a car, at a rate greater than 0.8 litres per second.

29.3 The driver may remain in his car throughout refuelling but the engine must be stopped.
29.4 Each competitor must ensure that an assistant equipped with a suitable fire extinguisher of
adequate capacity is beside the car throughout all refuelling operations.

Cylinder
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1

#F1 Vettel investigation ongoing - Christian Horner and more Renault guys have now gone to race control to see FIA

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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get a degree, apply and do it better
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

stefan_
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1

Sergio Perez deemed to have impeded Bruno Senna in Q1. He has been reprimanded.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Cylinder
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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FrukostScones wrote:get a degree, apply and do it better
We need to get back on topic, but I promise you this.....If I was head of that team, there would be murders....

Luca Di Montezelmolo was asked about Alonso getting angry with the technical dept for lack for performance, and he said 'Fernando is 100% right to keep the pressure on the engineers'.

Because even he knows what is going on. ie. the reliance of an entire team on one man to take a piece of bread and feed 5,000 with it every week, it's unacceptable and that Ferrari as a team, need to start taking responsibility.

That's my view on it.

Now..... just to repeat in case anyone missed..

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1

#F1 Vettel investigation ongoing - Christian Horner and more Renault guys have now gone to race control to see FIA

Cylinder
Cylinder
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperf1
#F1 Unusual for a team principal to become involved in such matters which can only mean it's getting serious for Vettel..

ESPImperium
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Re: 2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

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Id like to see drivers be told that they have 400 seconds to return to Parc Ferme once flag has waved at end of Quali, and if they stop for any reason, fuel or technical they go to back of grid. Lets make it black or white in the regulations. If there is a problem on the tech side, let them do the damage to the engine or gear box. If they have to replace, either between Quali and the Race id make them start from back of grid, or better still pit lane with Le Mans style 1 lap down rule.

Engine and Gearbox changes should be punished harshly.

I know i have been critical of engine and gearbox rules, as i think they should be consecutively not concurrently as is present rule.