2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

[myurr]

Guys, isn't it a little immaterial with the engine change. I can't see them taking a 9th unit as I believe one of the conditions of taking that unit is that they can't reuse any of the other 8 in a race. So they'd have to use that 9th unit for these last three races, leaving them with relatively old engine in what could be the title deciding race in Brazil. I think it's more likely they'll stick with the current engine, but will change the gear box just 'cause they can.

[myurr]

At least tomorrow vettel won't own this race from first corner. If vettel wants to be one of the greats he needs to show us tomorrow.

he wouldn't of been doing that regardless of the penalty.
with the strategy he's either got to go very long on his first stint or very short, depends how the tires perform in race trim.
Hes starting from the pit-lane so i expect his gear ratio's and maybe even wing level to change.

That's a very big risk for the team. I know they can do a couple of laps to test the settings and that their simulations are pretty good, but to make a fundamental change to the car setup and hope that it doesn't imbalance the car as the fuel levels change, or ruin tyre life on the long runs, is a big big risk.

Maybe they have to try something as the Red Bulls are the slowest cars of all down the straight, but I could actually see it backfiring quite badly for them. Even if they manage to add 5kmph they'll only be the 15th and 16th fastest cars and could lose, or at least harm, their advantage elsewhere on the circuit.

Conventional wisdom says go long on the first stint and enjoy better tyres throughout the end of the race, but given their straight line speed that may not work for them. They may have to go short, get in clean air, and try and gain track position even if they then have to defend in the latter stages of the race.

[Cylinder]

This is unbelievable, but someone on Autosport forums may actaully know something about Formula 1 cars

This may clarify what Horner is saying....

Amazing how few people actually understand F1 smile.gif)

Fuel sits in the fuel tank. Fuel in the fuel tank gets sloshed around by centrifugal forces when the car is cornering. If there is little fuel in the tank and lots of free space that means that you can get into a situation where the fuel pump gets starved because centrifugal forces have moved the fuel to where it can't be picked up. So in F1 you have a middle "tank" called the fuel collector that keeps 2 litres of fuel in a much smaller place and feeds the fuel pump. 2 litres is generally enough to power the car for 25-30 seconds, ie enough time for the fuel to settle back down and for the collector to be re-supplied.There is line out from the collector from which the FIA collects their fuel sample.

if you don't understand the concept of fuel sloshing there's an excellent video about it here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKoOeNUoNHU

The fuel gets into the collector via lifter pumps. If those fail then there's no fuel getting into the collector. Same thing happens if any of the trap doors between the various compartments in the fuel tank get stuck, no fuel is reaching the lifter pumps, no fuel is being delivered to the collector. At that point you have to stop the car or starve your pump (and engine). If you 're lucky there's enough fuel left in the collector for the FIA to get their sample, if not you can have 150 litres of fuel in the tank, it makes no difference, the FIA can't sample it without removing the fuel cap, which under the regulations is not allowed.

[bhall]

Christian Horner is full of ---. This is the third time Vettel has run out of fuel at the end of a session and the second time that's left the FIA unable to collect a sample.

[hendrix]

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
You can have 100 liters in the tank, but you may take just one. If you can't, then you are out even If you swear that you got 100 liters.

[Joie de vivre]

Is it just me or the Renault wanted to fake a failure?

Renault said to stop the car. But why? Was the reason they knew car had less than 1L petrol in it and they knew they will be penalised so they wanted to fake a failure?

[Cylinder]

Is it just me or the Renault wanted to fake a failure?

Renault said to stop the car. But why? Was the reason they knew car had less than 1L petrol in it and they knew they will be penalised so they wanted to fake a failure?

How do you know Renault really asked them to stop the car........because Horner said so?

[Goran2812]

That's just probably horners bulls**t that renault told them to stop...

[stefan_]

Is it just me or the Renault wanted to fake a failure?

Renault said to stop the car. But why? Was the reason they knew car had less than 1L petrol in it and they knew they will be penalised so they wanted to fake a failure?

Because that is what Red Bull / Horner does in this kind of situations. I don't understand why would they want to demonstrate / fake a failure or that they had enough fuel when it is clear that it isn't like that.

[myurr]

Because that is what Red Bull / Horner does in this kind of situations. I don't understand why would they want to demonstrate / fake a failure or that they had enough fuel when it is clear that it isn't like that.

The problem is that we, the fans, are reliant on the team for information. Time and time again Red Bull, and especially Christian Horner and Helmut Marko, have released contradictory or subsequently proven wrong statements. Their default mode is to bullsh1t to try and paint themselves as the good guys. They still don't seem to have learned that it's having the opposite effect. This has happened so many times now that I'm amazed anyone still gives them the benefit of the doubt.

So frankly any explanation that comes via the team or is based on information from the team is unlikely to be the whole unadulterated truth.

[stefan_]

Because that is what Red Bull / Horner does in this kind of situations. I don't understand why would they want to demonstrate / fake a failure or that they had enough fuel when it is clear that it isn't like that.

The problem is that we, the fans, are reliant on the team for information. Time and time again Red Bull, and especially Christian Horner and Helmut Marko, have released contradictory or subsequently proven wrong statements. Their default mode is to bullsh1t to try and paint themselves as the good guys. They still don't seem to have learned that it's having the opposite effect. This has happened so many times now that I'm amazed anyone still gives them the benefit of the doubt.

So frankly any explanation that comes via the team or is based on information from the team is unlikely to be the whole unadulterated truth.

I agree, hey are delivering a wrong message as a team by trying to lie or to drive the attention in a different part to get away with it and after that they are the ones who are amazed because everyone is suspecting them that they are avoiding or breaking the rules, using illegal devices and so on. Well, when you are bullshitting around like this of course people will suspect you of doing something sneaky.

It's easier to say "OK, we got it wrong, we apologise and we'll deal with the penalty". But they are trying to somehow put themselves in a good light as you say, but for a fan with an IQ greater than a stick it has quite the opposite effect.

"Retire the car, stay out, stop the car NOW!"
"Renault told us to stop the car and we did so although we don't have a clue why."
The list can continue.

[CHT]

I am looking forward to see how Vettel will handle today's race. It will be exciting to see how quickly he can make his way to the top 10.

[myurr]

Just been to see Charlie. Usual procedure is to wait until last car on grid has passed pit exit before pitlane light goes green.

Here, Charlie will look at Turn 1 from his gantry. When all cars have gone through T1 & he can no longer see them, pitlane light goes green.

With this pit lane exit, if they do start Vettel from the pit lane he's going to be 10 seconds off the back of the pack by the time he exits the pits. Even with setup changes I'm not sure that is a good idea!

[NonNewtonic]

I am looking forward to see how Vettel will handle today's race. It will be exciting to see how quickly he can make his way to the top 10.

I don't think it will be that easy as you need to remember that the Red Bull's aero is very sensitive to the 'dirty air' from the car ahead plus this time it seems like Vettel is struggling abit with the car compared to the previous few races. Even if he could make up to the top ten before the first round of pit stops, the leading group will be too far ahead.

[mcalex]

I think they're speculating on safety car ...