2012 qualifying championship

[GrizzleBoy]

Same with Schumi, except for the fact that he has actually been the direct cause of some of his point losses.

And poor Vergne

Edited for thread consistency/sanctity.

[raymondu999]

Let's keep this discussion thread free of these comments please - we don't need people coming in to further reply to that comment and soil the thread.

[raymondu999]

Post Japan

Hamilton – 248 (152) – 61.3%

Vettel – 179 (190) – 106.1%

Button – 147 (131) – 89.1%

Webber – 136 (134) – 98.5%

Alonso – 127 (194) – 152.8%

Schumacher – 110 (43) – 39.1%

Rosberg – 91 (93) – 102.2%

Grosjean – 103 (82) – 79.6%

Raikkonen – 83 (157) – 189.2%

Maldonado – 90 (33) – 36.7%

Massa – 45 (69) – 153.3%

Kobayashi – 51 (50) – 98.0%

Perez – 35 (66) – 188.6%

di Resta – 28 (44) – 157.1%

Hulkenberg – 20 (37) – 185.0%

Ricciardo – 9 (7) – 77.8%

Senna – 3 (25) – 833.3%

Vergne – 0 (8)

[raymondu999]

Post Korea qualifying championship

Hamilton – 263 (153) – 58.2%

Vettel – 197 (215) – 109.1%
Button – 147 (131) – 89.1%
Webber – 161 (152) – 94.4%

Alonso – 139 (209) – 150.4%

Schumacher – 111 (43) – 38.7%

Rosberg – 93 (93) – 100%
Grosjean – 109 (88) – 80.7%

Raikkonen – 93 (167) – 179.6%

Maldonado – 90 (33) – 36.7%

Massa – 53 (81) – 152.8%
Kobayashi – 51 (50) – 98.0%

Perez – 35 (66) – 188.6%

di Resta – 28 (44) – 157.1%

Hulkenberg – 24 (45) – 187.5%

Ricciardo – 9 (9) – 100%
Senna – 3 (25) – 833.3%
Vergne – 0 (12)

[raymondu999]

Post India qualifying championship

Hamilton – 278 (165) – 59.4%

Vettel – 222 (240) – 108.1%
Button – 159 (141) – 88.7%
Webber – 179 (167) – 93.3%

Alonso – 149 (227) – 152.3%

Schumacher – 111 (43) – 38.7%

Rosberg – 94 (93) – 98.9%
Grosjean – 109 (90) – 82.6%

Raikkonen – 99 (173) – 174.7%

Maldonado – 92 (33) – 35.9%

Massa – 61 (89) – 145.9%
Kobayashi – 51 (50) – 98.0%

Perez – 39 (66) – 169.2%

di Resta – 28 (44) – 157.1%

Hulkenberg – 24 (49) – 204.2%

Ricciardo – 9 (9) – 100%
Senna – 3 (26) – 866.7%
Vergne – 0 (12)

[raymondu999]

Post Abu Dhabi qualifying championship

Hamilton – 303 (165) – 54.5%
Vettel – 237 (255) – 107.6%
Webber – 197 (167) – 84.8%
Button – 167 (153) – 91.6%
Alonso – 155 (245) – 158.0%
Schumacher – 111 (43) – 38.7%
Grosjean – 110 (90) – 81.8%
Raikkonen – 109 (198) – 181.7%

Maldonado – 104 (43) – 41.3%
Rosberg – 98 (93) – 94.9%
Massa – 63 (95) – 150.8%
Kobayashi – 51 (58) – 113.7%
Perez – 39 (66) – 169.2%
di Resta – 28 (46) – 164.3%
Hulkenberg – 24 (49) – 204.2%

Ricciardo – 9 (10) – 111.1%
Senna – 3 (30) – 1000%
Vergne – 0 (12)

[JimClarkFan]

Post Abu Dhabi qualifying championship

Hamilton – 303 (165) – 54.5%
Vettel – 237 (255) – 107.6%
Webber – 197 (167) – 84.8%
Button – 167 (153) – 91.6%
Alonso – 155 (245) – 158.0%
Schumacher – 111 (43) – 38.7%
Grosjean – 110 (90) – 81.8%
Raikkonen – 109 (198) – 181.7%

Maldonado – 104 (43) – 41.3%
Rosberg – 98 (93) – 94.9%
Massa – 63 (95) – 150.8%
Kobayashi – 51 (58) – 113.7%
Perez – 39 (66) – 169.2%
di Resta – 28 (46) – 164.3%
Hulkenberg – 24 (49) – 204.2%

Ricciardo – 9 (10) – 111.1%
Senna – 3 (30) – 1000%
Vergne – 0 (12)

I think that over the season Mclaren and Red Bull have been evenly paced, so I would agree that out of the top 4 Hamilton is the fastest one lapper.

Can't really compare the top 4 drivers with the rest, Macca and Bulls have been the two class acts this year.

[raymondu999]

I beg to differ. IMO the Red Bull has had just about the same number of highs, but the McLaren has higher lows than the Red Bull, if that makes sense.

[JimClarkFan]

I beg to differ. IMO the Red Bull has had just about the same number of highs, but the McLaren has higher lows than the Red Bull, if that makes sense.

So you are saying that Macca have been the slight better car over the season in terms of quali, even if that is true there is hardly much in it.

[raymondu999]

Based on what though? We're both arguing a zero-sum game. If we are to say that drivers make less of a difference in quali, by way of assuming that over a lap, it's easier for everyone to achieve the limit of the car, then there IS no "fastest over a single lap"

If we're to assume that drivers can make a difference over a lap, then we have no basis of knowing the true qualifying pace of the cars anyway.

The numbers here in this thread deal with two unknowns - the one-lap pace of the cars, and the one-lap pace of the drivers. The numbers here cannot be used to derive either - because it's a combination of both.

[JimClarkFan]

Based on what though? We're both arguing a zero-sum game. If we are to say that drivers make less of a difference in quali, by way of assuming that over a lap, it's easier for everyone to achieve the limit of the car, then there IS no "fastest over a single lap"

If we're to assume that drivers can make a difference over a lap, then we have no basis of knowing the true qualifying pace of the cars anyway.

The numbers here in this thread deal with two unknowns - the one-lap pace of the cars, and the one-lap pace of the drivers. The numbers here cannot be used to derive either - because it's a combination of both.

Based on what you just said?????

I beg to differ. IMO the Red Bull has had just about the same number of highs, but the McLaren has higher lows than the Red Bull, if that makes sense.

Of course everything you just said is right... what's your point though? I'm not entirely sure what you think you are correcting me on here?????

[JimClarkFan]

...double post

[raymondu999]

You were inferring that LH was the fastest one-lapper, based on the numbers. Yes these are qualifying standings, but we don't know how much of it is down to driver, and how much is down to the car. We have no way of inferring either how the RBR and McLaren stack up against each other as one-lap cars, because it could be that one car is quicker but the other car has the quicker drivers.

Hence why I basically was saying that you cannot make any conclusions for certain, out of these numbers.

[JimClarkFan]

You were inferring that LH was the fastest one-lapper, based on the numbers. Yes these are qualifying standings, but we don't know how much of it is down to driver, and how much is down to the car. We have no way of inferring either how the RBR and McLaren stack up against each other as one-lap cars, because it could be that one car is quicker but the other car has the quicker drivers.

Hence why I basically was saying that you cannot make any conclusions for certain, out of these numbers.

Of course. I think we can agree on that.

[WhiteBlue]

I think the thread title is misleading because you compare grid position with finishing position using the same point scale. The most valuable figure for me is the percentage of grid conversion to finishing conversion. It is striking to see the difference in the conversion rates of the team mates. Alonso and Massa both have almost the same conversion rate although in absolute numbers Alonso is head and shoulders above his team mate. Webber and Vettel have much more unequal conversion rates which is mainly owed to Webbers inability to make good starts. He typically drops several positions right at the start. Most striking is Raikkönen and Grosjean. On one hand you have Mr. consistency - the ice man - who bags every point he can even smell in a car that is probably the most underdeveloped promising car of the grid. On the other hand you have Grosjean who seems to crash whenever he gets the smallest chance to do so. The team principals should read this statistics!