2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

[Sevach]

1) with Maldonado, he was locking up and slid into MW trying not to lose the place there, MW didn't leave room like Vettel did for Button, but still, both were somewhat responsible for it, how would you call it?

2) Massa in similar fashion drove into MW, at that point he went straight out of the track, why Massa spun is a mystery to me, since there was no obvious damage, just too much kerb that probably lifted a wheel, a bit too early on power, and that was it

if you would want, you would see some sort of a trend of aggressive drive by Webber, but then again, if you look at both incident separately, they are just that - racing incidents, at least Webber doesn't go screaming over the radio when things don't go his way

I don't agree with that on the Maldonado incident, Maldonado didn't slide into Webber, it was mark who closed the door. Pastor was on the curb at the apex, he can't make his car intangible, Webber had room (and speed) to complete the maneuver going in a wider line and choose to turn in early cutting Maldonado off (kinda like the kind of rough, agressive driving that Alonso did on him in lap 1).
Perhaps he expected Maldonado to play rough, driving a wider line than necessary (like Massa) but as it were he ended up paying the price for his agression.

Massa played rough with Webber and forced him out(again Maldonado didn't do that), sadly this kind of tactics are allowed (Hamilton and... you name it), what i think Massa was calling for punishment was the way Webber rejoined the track, kinda cutting infront of Massa that induced his spin.

[beelsebob]

Show why. What moves did Vettel make? Where would he have been had he not gained 35 seconds under the two safety cars? He was incredibly lucky with how that race panned out, and in terms of what he did he just drove fairly fast. In free air when they were both running, Hamilton was a few tenths a lap quicker, so you can't even say Vettel had field leading pace. He was just quick enough to take advantage of the way the race panned out, rather than being spectacular.

You mean the two safety cars - the first being where vettel had to pit because of his broken front wing putting him practically back at the grid *again* - which is where he was when the race restarted, or the second safety car that only yielded him *one single* position (which he might have got anyway even if there hadnt been a safety car)?

The point being that he otherwise would have had to stop during the race, and certainly would have lost positions, not gained one.

[LionKing]

Just did a quick calculation about Vettel gaigning 21 places.

Catheram-HRT-Marussia. cannot be easier: 18th
Hulkenberg & Hamilton out: 16th
STRs : RBR little sister, easy when not stuck behind SC: 14th
Saubers, Massa, Maldonado overtook because of (forced) pit stop strategy: 8th
Webber pleased to pit: 7th

Alonso and Raikkonen did 1&2 so only overtaking were: Button, Grosjean, Schumacher, Senna.

How about starting twice from the back?

I'll give you an example of a great drive, now that you remind me of it... Canada, and Button, last year... Ended up at the back, 20 seconds behind everyone, with 20 laps remaining... Still came back to win the race. That's a great drive. Vettel getting jammy with safety cars is not.

Right....

Canada 2011 was one of the clumsiest drives of Button, he was bad in wet. He won the race on dry tires when the circuit dried after 4 safety car periods keep resetting the lead of Vettel and others. He had the fastest car in dry conditions.

He was much luckier than Vettel! They even changed his rear wing in the race He was involved in 2 major accidents that took out two contenders.

He wasn't 20s behind. He was 3 seconds behind after the last safety car restart ..

[WhiteBlue]

There is very little point to talk down individual drivers. They mostly did a good job, particularly Kimi, Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel and Kobayashi. Webber was prominet for a very bad start again.

[clipsy1H]

how he get puncture??? was on safety-car

[JimClarkFan]

Show why. What moves did Vettel make? Where would he have been had he not gained 35 seconds under the two safety cars? He was incredibly lucky with how that race panned out, and in terms of what he did he just drove fairly fast. In free air when they were both running, Hamilton was a few tenths a lap quicker, so you can't even say Vettel had field leading pace. He was just quick enough to take advantage of the way the race panned out, rather than being spectacular.

dont get me wrong, i hate his finger as much as the next guy here, but there's no denying that coming from back of the grid twice to end up third is phenomenal. all mistakes he did, he ultimately paid for them one way or the other, like the nose he had to come in for, or the position he gave back to grosjean and retook soon after.

i'm gutted for hamilton, but between alonso and vettel, i'm not sure alonso is more deserving than vettel. this is as much a teamsport as it is a drivers and there's no looking past red bull. if they hadnt stuffed up the fuel issue on vettels car - it would have been an easy 2nd place behind hamilton (or win with hamiltons DNF) in front of alonso.

It's not phenomenal because of the two safety cars. If it was last to third in normal circumstance then I would say yes, that was pretty amazing. The only genuine overtake today was on Button, that was good. The others were easy for red bull, just a simple DRS overtake.

I agree though Alonso was more deserving.

[ss.vamsikrishna]

Kimi has done it finally =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
He deserved it always, he is one of the BEST OUT THERE...
WELL DONE KIMI =D> =D> =D> =D>
YES YES YES
The GOD !!!

[Cylinder]

Show why. What moves did Vettel make? Where would he have been had he not gained 35 seconds under the two safety cars? He was incredibly lucky with how that race panned out, and in terms of what he did he just drove fairly fast. In free air when they were both running, Hamilton was a few tenths a lap quicker, so you can't even say Vettel had field leading pace. He was just quick enough to take advantage of the way the race panned out, rather than being spectacular.

You mean the two safety cars - the first being where vettel had to pit because of his broken front wing putting him practically back at the grid *again* - which is where he was when the race restarted, or the second safety car that only yielded him *one single* position (which he might have got anyway even if there hadnt been a safety car)?

1. Please answer the question asked, where are the great overtakes in this great race from Vettel?
2. He damaged his own front wing because he botched an overtake on Bruno Senna
3. He damaged his wing AGAIN nearly running into the back of Riccardo during a safety car.
4. He couldnt overtake Grosjean, then Botched another overtake attempt and had to give the place back
5. Safety car two's timing was utterly perfect for him
6. Struggled to overtake Button on fresh soft's in a car geared for overtaking.
7. About 8 cars ahead of him including the race leader retired.

Anyone who thinks this is the sign of a great drive.....I don't know what to say.....

[Teechnical]

If Alonso doesn't win this WDC, it's alright, this is life, --- happens. ALOT.

I could say that after Massa drove flawlessly in Brazil of 2008, he truly deserved to be champion. But luck was against him, it went Hammy's way. That was a sad moment to see Massa lose, really upsetting. But referring to my above statement again, --- happens. ALOT.

[siskue2005]

Kimi has done it finally =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
He deserved it always, he is one of the BEST OUT THERE...
WELL DONE KIMI =D> =D> =D> =D>
YES YES YES
The GOD !!!

=D>

[ecapox]

Last radio transmission Alonso: "Button fell asleep so Vettel passed him."

[Lurk]

Just did a quick calculation about Vettel gaigning 21 places.

Catheram-HRT-Marussia. cannot be easier: 18th
Hulkenberg & Hamilton out: 16th
STRs : RBR little sister, easy when not stuck behind SC: 14th
Saubers, Massa, Maldonado overtook because of (forced) pit stop strategy: 8th
Webber pleased to pit: 7th

Alonso and Raikkonen did 1&2 so only overtaking were: Button, Grosjean, Schumacher, Senna.

How about starting twice from the back?

Still no more proper overtaking.

Catheram-HRT-Marussia still easy, Hulkenberg still out, Grosjean behind him at the end of 1st lap as di Resta (I forgot to write about him and Rosberg which were both behind - this is why 14-4=8 in my previous post ). He overtook Vergne (STR), Senna which cost him a front wing damage... 12th.

[Cylinder]

If Alonso doesn't win this WDC, it's alright, this is life, --- happens. ALOT.

I could say that after Massa drove flawlessly in Brazil of 2008, he truly deserved to be champion. But luck was against him, it went Hammy's way. That was a sad moment to see Massa lose, really upsetting. But referring to my above statement again, --- happens. ALOT.

Yea but you know what, Hamilton was always better than Massa, so that was a bit easier to digest, this would be a real injustice in my view.

By the way....look at the luck Hamilton has had, its farcial to be honest, and I cant stand Mclaren, but come on.....just insane....Hamilton was cruising today, just before his car gave up, he put in a lap 1.1 seconds faster than anyone, he was long gone.

[example]

Classy from Lewis, asking on radio how are Nico and Narain. Compare that with Vettel who had a go at Ricciardo.

[CHT]

Show why. What moves did Vettel make? Where would he have been had he not gained 35 seconds under the two safety cars? He was incredibly lucky with how that race panned out, and in terms of what he did he just drove fairly fast. In free air when they were both running, Hamilton was a few tenths a lap quicker, so you can't even say Vettel had field leading pace. He was just quick enough to take advantage of the way the race panned out, rather than being spectacular.

You mean the two safety cars - the first being where vettel had to pit because of his broken front wing putting him practically back at the grid *again* - which is where he was when the race restarted, or the second safety car that only yielded him *one single* position (which he might have got anyway even if there hadnt been a safety car)?

1. Please answer the question asked, where are the great overtakes in this great race from Vettel?
2. He damaged his own front wing because he botched an overtake on Bruno Senna
3. He damaged his wing AGAIN nearly running into the back of Riccardo during a safety car.
4. He couldnt overtake Grosjean, then Botched another overtake attempt and had to give the place back
5. Safety car two's timing was utterly perfect for him
6. Struggled to overtake Button on fresh soft's in a car geared for overtaking.
7. About 8 cars ahead of him including the race leader retired.

Anyone who thinks this is the sign of a great drive.....I don't know what to say.....

I think the first question is to ask yourself if you have any f1 racing experience to make a fair judgement of what you see on cable tv.