Red Bull RB8 Renault

[scarlet]

What is interesting tos=day, is the fact that with taller gearing being fitted overnight, Vettels car was so fast. Much faster than Webbers or anyone elses. So will that mean that RBR will look further into their previous short gearing strategy?

They took the monkey seat off the car too, and would have removed a lot of angle from the front wing to compensate. In that spec he would have been nowhere in quali.

[aral]

What is interesting tos=day, is the fact that with taller gearing being fitted overnight, Vettels car was so fast. Much faster than Webbers or anyone elses. So will that mean that RBR will look further into their previous short gearing strategy?

They took the monkey seat off the car too, and would have removed a lot of angle from the front wing to compensate. In that spec he would have been nowhere in quali.

Why not? If his newly formatted car was 1 sec a lap faster than Webbers unchanged car, it seems to imply that even in quali, he would have been ahead of Webber.

[Robbobnob]

The Quali setup benefits from the DDRS being able to provide a straightline boost wherever they arent traction limited. However, during the race this is only beneficial on the back straight when you are 1 second behind the car infront, so the pace of the car is compromised when compared to the setup Vettel used during the race.

Mark would have been untouchable if he was able to get the car off the line and through the first couple of corners, but as he suffered behind the Williams his advantage of superior grip in the comers was nullified by the turbulence of Maldonado's trailing air and he ate his tryes like the cookie monster and a pack of oreo's. This left him vulnerable to Flying Fred and the rest, is history.

[marcush.]

errm ..if your car is broken ,you are allowed to repair ,no? So if the car does lose a wheel in the last corner and you would be underweight because of this you are still legal and will not be disqualified...
I´d think they did not want to show their cards.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Quali setup benefits from the DDRS being able to provide a straightline boost wherever they arent traction limited. However, during the race this is only beneficial on the back straight when you are 1 second behind the car infront, so the pace of the car is compromised when compared to the setup Vettel used during the race.

Mark would have been untouchable if he was able to get the car off the line and through the first couple of corners, but as he suffered behind the Williams his advantage of superior grip in the comers was nullified by the turbulence of Maldonado's trailing air and he ate his tryes like the cookie monster and a pack of oreo's. This left him vulnerable to Flying Fred and the rest, is history.

Vettel had the better race setup though. And the DDRS is still good for the race. You accelerate much faster.

[aral]

he suffered behind the Williams his advantage of superior grip in the comers was nullified by the turbulence of Maldonado's trailing air and he ate his tryes like the cookie monster and a pack of oreo's. This left him vulnerable to Flying Fred and the rest, is history.

And Alonso did not suffer being in the dirty air behind Webber.......?

[.poz]

There are very stringent rules about the fuel tank as this is a major safety factor. I think that many are mislead to believe there is a separate tank while actually it's about the internal small feeder tank inside the main one, fed by the scavenging pumps and whose purpose is to contain a relatively small but constant amount of fuel for the HP pump to feed the engine.

There is a very good old post on ScrabsF1 about F1 fuel tanks: http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/06/01/an ... el-system/

[turbof1]

The Quali setup benefits from the DDRS being able to provide a straightline boost wherever they arent traction limited. However, during the race this is only beneficial on the back straight when you are 1 second behind the car infront, so the pace of the car is compromised when compared to the setup Vettel used during the race.

Mark would have been untouchable if he was able to get the car off the line and through the first couple of corners, but as he suffered behind the Williams his advantage of superior grip in the comers was nullified by the turbulence of Maldonado's trailing air and he ate his tryes like the cookie monster and a pack of oreo's. This left him vulnerable to Flying Fred and the rest, is history.

A little bit off topic, but this post got me thinking.I dont think that (d)drs is so much about top speed: when you hit the limiter, you cant go any faster. With or without drs activated. What it actually does is provide an extra acceleration by reduced drag, essentially achieving the top speed faster and hitting the limiter faster.
Back before drs was introduced, cars were differently geared, having more focus on end acceleration and top speed. Drs essentially made sure cars were shorter geared, which you dont notice in qualy (except for cars hitting the limiter more often), but all the more in the race. It is clear that overtaking without drs is now alot more difficult then before drs was introduced. Without mixing it up with its economics' meaning, drs essentially "crowded out" overtaking for a bit.

[Kiril Varbanov]

One thing that I failed to grasp during the race - what was Newey inspecting on the front wing for VET prior to the change? Has he made any corrections on it or just observations? The action swept the frames away and I had to move my attention forward.

[antrock]

Craig Scarborough @ScarbsF1
Odd! look how the nose tip\cameras flex when the mechanic changes the nose cone at 10s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm59ktOeI0

[turbof1]

One thing that I failed to grasp during the race - what was Newey inspecting on the front wing for VET prior to the change? Has he made any corrections on it or just observations? The action swept the frames away and I had to move my attention forward.

Could be one of 3 things:
-He maybe was checking/visualising how the wing was effected with half an endplate missing.
-The front wing in garage maybe still had to be set up in Seb's new race set up.
-The 2 front wings could had different elements; in many cases teams, and especially with being so far away from the home base, aren't able to bring spare parts for new elements and only have 1 iteration for each driver. Damaging one part usually leads to reverting to an older spec part. Newey was perhaps trying to visualise how the new front wing would affect the rest of the car.

[scarlet]

Craig Scarborough @ScarbsF1
Odd! look how the nose tip\cameras flex when the mechanic changes the nose cone at 10s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm59ktOeI0

Could either of his impacts have anything to do with the flexibility?

[Nando]

wow that looked like foam or something.

[hollus]

I think we've got a nice complete picture here:

Craig Scarborough @ScarbsF1
Odd! look how the nose tip\cameras flex when the mechanic changes the nose cone at 10s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm59ktOeI0

I think the flexing nosecone and wing pilon mounting are no coincidence. I think they may have the nose cone flex in low-med speeds increasing overall AoA to the entire front wing. Asspeed increases the added downforce at the rearmost section starts to push down on the back of the wing compared to the front. This in turn flexes the wing to reduce AoA. The only legal way to have the pilons flex that much would be to have them barely holding the wing on, which is best done by that silly mounting.

Why do I say this? I had suggested about it in the rb7 thread midpoint last year.

I borrowed a picture from this thread, showing the Red Bull front wing obviously raked; and another from F1fanatic without the rake from as close a perspective as I could find, and tried to contour the noses and the wings by hand.
It is nothing sophisticated, I just used powerpoint, so please, if someone has the time, the inclination, a better software and better pictures, by all means, improve on this work. This comparison is only as good as the precision of the (hand drawn) contours, and while one picture is made from exactly the height of the nose, the other is taken from a a slightly elevated view-point as it is made clars by the top of the front wheels. In the second I tried to follow the profile of the nose wall closest to the camera, but it is blurry at some points and I might well have deviated a bit from the target.
Anyways, enough talk, let's go to the point.

The areas chosen for the comparison:



I used green for the "legal" shape and red for the one that is "bending" the rules.

Zooms of the fits, judge how good (or bad) the contours are by yourself:




Now the overlay:



I got the nose tips with a slightly different shape. It could be that they used different nosecones, but I am more prone to blame my hand-drawn contours.

Anyways:
This wing is not simply pivoting at the struts. There might be some of that too, but the whole nose cone is bending down like a fishing rod. The wing, at least to a large extent, largely follows. So pure downforce is bending down the nose tip, drag wouldn't do that. (Edit: I guess downforce plus a lot of drag can also do that...).
It is perfectly possible that drag is also bending the wing at the struts, but from these contours, I don't dare to take any conclusion in that direction.

Note: the pics with the contours are from march 2011, but by the look of it, not much has changed.

Edit: added this from around the same time: The flexing of the nose cone around the camera housings is explained by a hollow nosecone "loose skin" around the real rigid crash structure. That skin is what is flexing in the initial youtube video.

If this type of nosecone construction is typical, then the outer structure might be acting independently of a separate, internal crash structure:




The stays mounted to the outside would allow the everything to pivot down. They can develop both parts independently. The CS to pass the crash test, the skin to deform once a certain amount of force is applied.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXf2jx-fHZ0[/youtube]

[aancora]

Hi guys..I've found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JN0F5H2 ... e=youtu.be

Look at the deformability of the front wing under the hands of the RB mechanic! It's rubber?? O_O How it can resist under 100kg during the test??

Sorry, the video was posted.. BUT it is in HD!