Red Bull RB8 Renault

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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raymondu999 wrote:You'd run camber to optimise your contact patch on the outside tyre rather than the inside - especially as weight transfer would put the vertical load on the outside tyre anyways.
Nope. You run camber to get the contact patch near the middle when the car is cornering.
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bhall
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I think he meant that camber is used to optimize the contact patch for the car's outside tires, e.g. the left tires in a right-hander, rather than the outside of the tires themselves.

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tok-tokkie
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Thanks. Now that you explain it it is obvious.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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n smikle wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:You'd run camber to optimise your contact patch on the outside tyre rather than the inside - especially as weight transfer would put the vertical load on the outside tyre anyways.
Nope. You run camber to get the contact patch near the middle when the car is cornering.
You misunderstood me. I meant what bhallg2k said.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Yes I see, I was reading it too fast. Nowadays I just glance over the posts. Too much "fat" on the forum.
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Jackles-UK
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Doesn't a high camber value speed up the tyre warm-up rate? I thought that was their reason for ignoring Pirelli in the whole Spa tyre fiasco last year. With the tyres being so hard to switch on this weekend and the fact that it's almost certainly going to be a Bridgestone-esque 1 stop race it is probably worth the gamble.

Noticed today that of the stepped nosed cars, the RBR is the only one to really angle the tip down similar to the McLaren of early rounds. If we believe in the whole flexi-nose saga could this be to force more air over the top of it to deflect it down at speed?

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ringo
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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To touch on the tyre warm up topic, I'm not sure if it was mentioned before, but redbull may be circulation some of that hot air off the brake rotors to the inner circumference of the wheel rim to warm it, which then warms the tyres.
That air of the brakes should be very hot and is almost independent of surface characteristics.
Slamming on the brakes on the parade lap or anytime during the race is sure enough to generate enough heat to warm the rims and then the tyres, regardless of the track conditions.
I suppose they may have an interesting ducting arangement to circulate some of that hot air before it exits the wheel rim.
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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ringo wrote:To touch on the tyre warm up topic, I'm not sure if it was mentioned before, but redbull may be circulation some of that hot air off the brake rotors to the inner circumference of the wheel rim to warm it, which then warms the tyres.
That air of the brakes should be very hot and is almost independent of surface characteristics.
Slamming on the brakes on the parade lap or anytime during the race is sure enough to generate enough heat to warm the rims and then the tyres, regardless of the track conditions.
I suppose they may have an interesting ducting arangement to circulate some of that hot air before it exits the wheel rim.
Possibly Red Bull isnt the only one doing so. Where pre-pirelli times teams ran fully enclosed brake setups, now there are holes, or even fully exposed brake discs.
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fritticaldi
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Italiaracing.net is reporting that Renault will supply Red Bull will have new alternators for Brazil. Better late than never. The alternators have passed the tests and at Milton Keynes they are crossing their fingers. The previous alternators were furnished by Magneti Marelli. Their failures were highly criticized in the media by Dr. Helmut Markko.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Interesting. Source, fritticaldi? You make it sound like these new alternators are Renault in-house. Is that the case?

Speaking of alternator cooling. Renault, IIRC, use an air-cooled alternator. The last water leak issues I remember for Red Bull was Mark Webber at Monza 2010 FP3 - so I don't think it's a recurring issue.

With RBR being Renault works team now (at least de facto, if not for real) could Red Bull have been testing a water-cooled alternator, with the view of maybe sacrificing some weight and packaging in exchange for some alternator longevity?

Just a pattern that popped in my mind. I have absolutely nothing to back the theory up, other than what is in this post.
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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Aha. Autosport is reporting on it: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104409
Renault will switch Red Bull on to its newest specification of alternator for the championship decider in Brazil following Mark Webber's failure in the United States Grand Prix.

Webber suffered Red Bull's third alternator failure in a race this year at Austin, dropping him out of third position.

That problem prompted concerns from the team about that area of the car, which has left engine partner Renault in no doubt that Red Bull must switch to the newer spec for this weekend's Interlagos showdown.

Renault's head of trackside operations Remi Taffin told AUTOSPORT about the plans for Brazil: "It is very simple. We go for the new spec. It has passed all the tests."

Red Bull elected not to use the newer specification, which was raced by other Renault teams, because it felt safer using the older specification that had so far proved trouble-free.

When asked why that decision had been made if the newer units had passed all reliability tests, Taffin said: "Because they are human beings and at some point as humans they have some feelings.

"It was a common decision, so we put everything on the table and we decided altogether we should go that way. We had everything to fit either the old or new design.

"But the feeling was generally that there is some sense to keep on using something that we have known for years with low mileage and stuff like that, even if we had a new solution that we knew had gone through all the tests.

"Maybe it is a bit more difficult to understand, but put yourself in the situation where you have to make a decision.

"Sometimes you go into a shop and there are two different things and your head says you should buy this one but your heart says you should buy the other one."

Taffin added that the fact that Renault's other teams had successfully used the revised newer specification of alternator last weekend meant that Red Bull should have no concerns about its reliability for Brazil.

"This is the first Sunday it has been used, but now we are up to 2000km on a few items with track and dyno testing, so there is nothing we would do more on this item before we fit it on the car."
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siskue2005
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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damn that is indeed worrying

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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From the article, it sounds like basically they made modifications and fixes to the 2012-spec alternators (which, let's not forget - was reliable all the way from Melbourne to Valencia, and then Valencia to Monza) and they're fielding those. Not any special designs AFTER the failures.
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Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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It's really weird that only Red Bull has these type of failures.

Lotus, Williams and Caterham seem fine.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Lotus have 1 failure - Grosjean in Valencia. So 2 for Red Bull, 1 for Lotus.
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