Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[ArchAngel]

It's so sad that Michael Schumacher has to bow out this way

Just like everyone has to die sometime, same with F1.
Regardless of results you have to make room for younger guys to take the stage.

Some of us are sentimental creatures. Leave us alone
I just wish that "how the mighty have fallen" didn't have to apply here.

+1 LoL!

What saddens me most about this closing chapter is how up 'til midseason, even non-supporters were already acknowledging that MSC is driving better than ever (at least in his Merc tenure), and nearly everyone agreed that continuing on to at least 2013 was already a certainty lacking only in contractual formality. To have to leave the sport when he's still easily better than half the grid despite them being younger and on more reliable & faster cars is just... sad.

...and then he couldn't decide whether to sign or not. He was never committed...

More than anything, I think it was the team's inability to pursue a purposeful in-season development program which could keep them in regular contention for podium places that caused him to "dither" about signing on the dotted line. The team's disastrous late-season tailspin pretty much vindicates his deteriorating confidence in the organization. Had there been strong indications that the team could stay close to its China-&-Monaco form, then MSC would've probably already put pen to paper when the option was offered to him early in the season.

..I believe that the feedback from an aggressive turn in driver like Hamilton will be just what Mercedes needs.

I can understand arguing that HAM might be able to squeeze a couple of tenths more out of the car... But I can't really see him bringing better -- perhaps equal, but not better -- feedback/development skills & value to the team than either MSC or ROS.

[ringo]

Well ive been asking for a team turn around and i think Brawn finally realized he needed a whole new set of engineers.
The team really needed some outside infusions.
Could someone care to list all the new guys that have been added to the team?
Hamilton is obviously a part of that infussion as well.
You simply have to turn a new leaf if you want to get a completely different and competitive car from the ground up.
Like what williams are doing now with this year's car.
As for feedback, Hamilton will bring with him valuable memories of the mclaren car and how it felt when it was good enough to win or pole. He will relate the mclaren's feelings and also the race prep to mercedes. What is done in practice and so on.
He will come with valuable information.

My biggest hope is that the car is purposeful in ever aspect. The last 3 have been very much based on what looks fast, but not what is tested as being fast. It must copy the redbull in all aspects and have the results validated.

[ArchAngel]

I'll be interested to see if Hamilton gets to drive the W03 during preseason testing before they officially launch the W04. I'd be curious as to what his driver feedback is and how it compares to what Rosberg and Schumacher relayed to the team all year...

The team has a history of starting preseason testing with a hybrid car -- previous year's car jury-rigged to conform to new tech regs. Having been a McLaren driver for his entire F1 career so far, it would indeed be amusing to see the priceless, shocked look on HAM's face (along with whispered, stammering profanities under his breath) should he ever get the chance to take the W03 out for a spin. I bet even ROS would get a few giggles out of it, too.

Hamilton's set up will be different from both Rosberg and Schumacher's.
And he will bring with him some usable knowledge on how to switch on the tyres for his particular needs...

...As for feedback, Hamilton will bring with him valuable memories of the mclaren car and how it felt when it was good enough to win or pole. He will relate the mclaren's feelings...

I doubt whether this knowledge that HAM brings with him would be "portable" and immediately translate to improved handling & performance in a Mercedes AMG car... Marginally helpful perhaps, but not much. Despite the same engine, too many things are different in the engineering philosophies of the MP4-27 and W03. The prominent car characteristics, and to a greater extent the on-track performance & results, clearly allude to two different beasts.

Still, I wish HAM & Merc all the luck next year. With MSC out, I admittedly won't be following this team's fortunes closely anymore next season.

[Cocles]

Here's the news as posted on Autosport...

Daimler buys Aabar's shares....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104403

[ringo]

Will there be another name change for the team?

[Cam]

Here's the news as posted on Autosport...

Daimler buys Aabar's shares....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104403

what's the odds they inked that little deal before Aabar knew Hamilton was coming over? From a business point of view, the only reason you would want to buy out shareholders now (while the team is crap) is to avoid a paying higher price later. An expected future higher share price would suggest they expect better results - or are they just putting in place a Plan B to shut it down easily if required?

[raymondu999]

Will there be another name change for the team?

Why? If anything Daimler buying out Aabar makes the team name closer to the owners, because of Daimler-Benz.

[FoxHound]

Well ive been asking for a team turn around and i think Brawn finally realized he needed a whole new set of engineers.
The team really needed some outside infusions.
Could someone care to list all the new guys that have been added to the team?

Loic Bigois and John Owen both out. Owen still has a desk job, but he has been removed from the core decision making process.
Both these are Aero guys having worked together over the years with only 1 real success, the BGP001 which also had the input of Jorg Zander... 3 guv'nors you could call them

Willis and Elliott are now aero guru's. But Willis' role has been defined as windtunnel confined. Elliott is design defined in conjunction with Costa who majors on the mechanical side.
We then have Bell, who is working with engines. And we can clearly see why if the engines are using 20+ extra kilos of fuel than the competition....this problem needs resolving before the cars hit the grid in 2013.

[zyphro]

Owen still has a desk job, but he has been removed from the core decision making process.

Since when? I seem to remember he was actually promoted.

[FoxHound]

Here's the news as posted on Autosport...

Daimler buys Aabar's shares....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104403

what's the odds they inked that little deal before Aabar knew Hamilton was coming over? From a business point of view, the only reason you would want to buy out shareholders now (while the team is crap) is to avoid a paying higher price later. An expected future higher share price would suggest they expect better results - or are they just putting in place a Plan B to shut it down easily if required?

Remember the deal of purchasing Brawn was first mooted at the Abu Dhabi paddock in 2009? It is also near enough the home of Aabar. Without Aabar, I'm unsure Daimler would have entered as Mercedes used no money of its own to purchase or fund the team.
Reason being, McLaren was sold to mumtalak holdings for between 200 and 400 million depends whom you believe, and Mercedes got an upfront of around 100 million to go ahead with the Brawn buyout. However, Brawn used up in 2009 the 2010 Concorde money in keeping the team running and this deficit is where I think Aabar came in. They did own 12% of Daimler at the time and helped prop up the funds to get the team going.
Every year since then Mercedes themselves have added no more budget than what they had at McLaren year before. They were assisted by Aabar, and also the McLaren sell off.
The advent of AMG into the picture this year means Mercedes can separate the notorius issue of cost, onto it's more profitable subsidiary on the basis that it needs F1 to grow. Meaning Aabar's position would no longer be required although welcomed before.

We already see conflicting reports of a raised budget for the team in 2013. The team say yes, and Daimler say no.
Both could be right.
Daimler may not directly give them cash, but....from what I have heard the last 4 months Coca Cola is looking to plunge 30million + into a team that will run their Relentless energy drink to compete with that of Red Bull.
I'm not saying Mercedes have Relentless lined up, but with the Lewis Hamilton signed up and his huge profile and time spent in the states, Mercedes are a good candidate for them.

McLaren are due to lose Vodafone apparently, but Carlos Slim would want some of that action with his boy riding shot gun in a macca.

Ferrari is keeping Santander and Shell.

Lotus, a possibility.

Sauber, not really likely they can maintain this years form into next. And they are still behind Mercedes.

So maybe this is a possibility, but no one really knows....and they are probably still negotiating with a couple of teams etc which is why we havent heard anything yet. But, the rumours have been circulating for some time so let's see what happens here too.

[FoxHound]

Owen still has a desk job, but he has been removed from the core decision making process.

Since when? I seem to remember he was actually promoted.

A non executive TD. Desk job/moved sideways.
Mike Elliott replaced John Owen, who himself was in Bigois' postion when he left.

Remember Bigois was offered the same role but refused. He opted for Ferrari which was more hands on.

[Vasconia]

It's so sad that Michael Schumacher has to bow out this way

The real question is why did he retire the first time? The comeback still makes no sense to me. He wasted two seasons knocking the rust off and then he couldn't decide whether to sign or not. He was never committed. It was just a nostalgia and p.r. exercise. I'm sure he realizes now that retirement is the best option.

I think the root of the problem at Mercedes is that the car still has Jenson Button's fingerprints all over it. Jenson 'smooth driver' Button who always seems to struggle to get heat into the tires. I believe that the feedback from an aggressive turn in driver like Hamilton will be just what Mercedes needs.

Really? Hamilton is not known as a great car developer, if the WO4 is a competitive car the reason will be clear, the work of the new staff will finally paying off.

Schu and Nico has worked very hard, but the team has been a complete diaster in season development.

I sincerely think that Schu has showed the greatest commitment for the team, working hard and not making any critic when he had all the reason to do it. At least the team could offer a good car for this final race but they wont. For me his true retirement will always be that final race in Brazil 2006.

[beelsebob]

Really? Hamilton is not known as a great car developer, if the WO4 is a competitive car the reason will be clear, the work of the new staff will finally paying off.

Alternatively... Hamilton will become known as a great car developer. Which may be a lot of why he feels he needs to move – he needs to demonstrate that he can make something out of nothing.

[Nando]

Alternatively this whole Driver X can develop his car is most likely a myth.

Drivers are drivers, i think that the maximum a driver can help develop is saying if the parts work or not and how they affect the car.

But to come in off-season and sit down with engineers telling them what to do i think is a dream.
If Schumi really was that good of a developer or that this phenomenon really exist we would have seen Mercedes GP way more competitive then it is at the moment.

People say "oh yea he held Ferrari on his shoulders blablabla" then when it´s not working at Mercedes it´s all of a sudden the teams fault.
I guess if they had won even more races this year the fans would praise Schumi as the greatest car developer on the planet..

[FoxHound]

I agree the car development of drivers which brings many tenths of a second is most likely myth.

Engineers and Aero guru's are the people responsible for this. But, Driver Feedback does help them.
In Hamilton's case, he knows how McLaren work, how they switch on the tyres and how they keep it there. It may be basic information, but it is information Mercedes are not privy to at present.

How the engineers can decipher what Hamilton tells them, well this is the crux of it. I wonder how much Hamilton would know about the tyre useage, and how it is kept in the operating window.