Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[Nando]

I think for next year all that tire info might be useless.
The two pirelli years was pretty different from each other and i think next year will be the same thing.

[ringo]

Well ive been asking for a team turn around and i think Brawn finally realized he needed a whole new set of engineers.
The team really needed some outside infusions.
Could someone care to list all the new guys that have been added to the team?

Loic Bigois and John Owen both out. Owen still has a desk job, but he has been removed from the core decision making process.
Both these are Aero guys having worked together over the years with only 1 real success, the BGP001 which also had the input of Jorg Zander... 3 guv'nors you could call them

Willis and Elliott are now aero guru's. But Willis' role has been defined as windtunnel confined. Elliott is design defined in conjunction with Costa who majors on the mechanical side.
We then have Bell, who is working with engines. And we can clearly see why if the engines are using 20+ extra kilos of fuel than the competition....this problem needs resolving before the cars hit the grid in 2013.

Were there any reputable aero guys brought in from other teams?
Mechanical side is a weakness of the Mercedes for sure, the engine side is ok , it''s the aero side where they need the biggest boost.
Relaibility is fairly good on the machinery, just the attention to detail is an issue i feel. That's all sporting director responsibilities and is not a big hurdle.

[Joie de vivre]

Michael: “I would be happiest if I could say goodbye with a strong race”

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com/en/#/s/n ... trong-race

probably he meant strong car

but yeah, I still wish him all the best in the last race

[FoxHound]

Were there any reputable aero guys brought in from other teams?

Yes Mike Elliot from Lotus.

And the Windtunnel has now been upgraded to 60% model capable as you know.

[Timstr]

Well ive been asking for a team turn around and i think Brawn finally realized he needed a whole new set of engineers.
The team really needed some outside infusions.
Could someone care to list all the new guys that have been added to the team?

Loic Bigois and John Owen both out. Owen still has a desk job, but he has been removed from the core decision making process.
Both these are Aero guys having worked together over the years with only 1 real success, the BGP001 which also had the input of Jorg Zander... 3 guv'nors you could call them

Willis and Elliott are now aero guru's. But Willis' role has been defined as windtunnel confined. Elliott is design defined in conjunction with Costa who majors on the mechanical side.
We then have Bell, who is working with engines. And we can clearly see why if the engines are using 20+ extra kilos of fuel than the competition....this problem needs resolving before the cars hit the grid in 2013.

That makes sense as I was wondering about his role with rumors saying he was promoted.
Elliott head of aero, being responsible for the shape of the car.
Willis took over Bigois' role responsible for the aero technology and other simulation technology used to design the car.
I think Bigois did not recognize the improvements an increase a 60% model size would bring.
Mercedes are the last of the top 7 teams to adopt a 60% model size I believe.

[marcush.]

I just read a print interview with Brawn about the Hamilton decision to join MGP where he explains the Team structure.

Actually Bell was instrumental in hiring Elliot who was responsible for the current Lotus as chied aerodynamicist.

The line of command is:

Bob Bell is a true Technical director and responsible for the strategical decisions ,budgets ,human recources,and he has the final say in technical decisions -director that is. He made the decision to stop all development and change to 60%Model size
and a major upgrade to the windtunnel.

Costa is leading the design office -CAD -Car design etc.

Willis is heading Elliot(Aero) and the responsibles for vehicle dynamics (Shovlin that is) and others looking for a fruitfull exchange and cooperation + leading the guys in the correct direction and he has to force the correct decisions if needed according to Brawn.

[Mika1]

I just read a print interview with Brawn about the Hamilton decision to join MGP where he explains the Team structure.

Actually Bell was instrumental in hiring Elliot who was responsible for the current Lotus as chied aerodynamicist.

The line of command is:

Bob Bell is a true Technical director and responsible for the strategical decisions ,budgets ,human recources,and he has the final say in technical decisions -director that is. He made the decision to stop all development and change to 60%Model size
and a major upgrade to the windtunnel.

Costa is leading the design office -CAD -Car design etc.

Willis is heading Elliot(Aero) and the responsibles for vehicle dynamics (Shovlin that is) and others looking for a fruitfull exchange and cooperation + leading the guys in the correct direction and he has to force the correct decisions if needed according to Brawn.

An impressive line-up if you ask me. But it's time to perform.

[marcush.]

sure it is .
Brawn admits they had this design philosophy evolving from BGP001 through to W03 but concluded early this spring -summer
they had come to the end of the road with this line of thoughts as there was no more in it.
Maybe he speaks about the design process itself there how you develop the basic idea and detail it out ? To my understanding it does make a lot of sense to take a much broader view in early design stages and NOT drag the old car on the screen and start modifying it as was clearly happening the last years.
I think it´s just not necessary to base your new designs on old ones just because they are there ..a process like this will not identify or even rectify design constraints.I have the view that regulations are motre than enough constraining the designers work and most likely teams these days work within the confines of a skeleton and legality boxes with constraints like permissible radii etc already defined in your toolbox (mind you Sauber had that wing profile radius rule not respected in theior toolbox and paid a price for it)

http://www.gpinternational.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=85

[Timstr]

sure it is .
Brawn admits they had this design philosophy evolving from BGP001 through to W03 but concluded early this spring -summer
they had come to the end of the road with this line of thoughts as there was no more in it.
Maybe he speaks about the design process itself there how you develop the basic idea and detail it out ? To my understanding it does make a lot of sense to take a much broader view in early design stages and NOT drag the old car on the screen and start modifying it as was clearly happening the last years.
I think it´s just not necessary to base your new designs on old ones just because they are there ..a process like this will not identify or even rectify design constraints.I have the view that regulations are motre than enough constraining the designers work and most likely teams these days work within the confines of a skeleton and legality boxes with constraints like permissible radii etc already defined in your toolbox (mind you Sauber had that wing profile radius rule not respected in theior toolbox and paid a price for it)

Will you at least share with us which publication you read this in?

[Joie de vivre]

I still cannot believe they haven't used 60% model untill now.

[marcush.]

I still cannot believe they haven't used 60% model untill now.

In the light of haaving a fullsize tunnel already since 2007 it is just staggering they never attempted to perform that switch after fullsize windtunneltesting was effectively banned (apart from a handful of sessions you could trade in for straightline testing so it makes no sense to build a fullsize model.)

[Joie de vivre]

The informations gathered from such testing are much greater when testing it on larger model than a smaller one (imagine testing on a 1:43 model). It's just fascinating it took them so long to realise that.

[ringo]

Shovlin is what again?
dynamics? He's been there since the Honda days has he? Hmmm....
Boy, when i think of q turnaround i thinking that we need a really good dynamics guy. The W0X cars wreak of stagnation on the design front and the dynamics. It has been poor on the tyres since the first inception.
It's hard for a design engineer to change his ways of thinking. Unless he gets a revelation or goes back to school, he's gonna be solving new problems with the same old techniques. Mark you, they can improve if given time for iteration and observation, hence the 2009 car but we all know the time is limited.
So the same old guys cant magically make a better new car. The can only make a new car with the same old principles.
Better to have an army of sheep lead by a Lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep. I hope Shovlin is really good though, hope he's not a weak link.

[Vasconia]

Michael: “I would be happiest if I could say goodbye with a strong race”

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com/en/#/s/n ... trong-race

probably he meant strong car

but yeah, I still wish him all the best in the last race

Yes, but he doesnt believe in miracles. So rain is the only chance to do something important, at least rain gives some opportunities to see a surprise. If not his farewell will be a sad and suffering one.

I have seen that they will install the old exhaut system for this race, I dont know what to expect, but at least Michael was strong with this exhaut in the wet qualis of Germany and England.

[alvinkhorfire]

Michael: “I would be happiest if I could say goodbye with a strong race”

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com/en/#/s/n ... trong-race

probably he meant strong car

but yeah, I still wish him all the best in the last race

We all hope for Schumi scoring decent points in Brazil. [-o< Of course, an extra bonus would be an extra wet race in Brazil, with Michael Schumacher winning it.

We all know that Michael Schumacher made his comeback to F1 not because of money. After all, he has more than enough money to live a luxurious life. Then again, if he does retire from F1, no amount of money he has can be substituted with a race seat in F1. Plus, he can never obtain the same thrill of racing in F1, in other types of racing.

It is kind of demotivating to race in such slow Mercedes, but it is still F1 racing. What else can he race in, that will provide the same thrill of racing in F1?

Well, this is just my opinion. I just feel that he should still racing in F1 for a few more years, not because of earning more money, but to satisfy his thirst for speed.