Scuderia Ferrari 2012

[Hail22]

I've never seen the term Garageristas used anywhere before - hence my confusion.

Crazy exhausts... the flying squirrel?

It´s a term that was used by the old man Enzo Ferrari when he described teams like Lotus.

I guess you can call them that, horrendous exhaust.... and 65 different versions of it as well.
(i do understand why they tested so many things but please...not again...for the sake of Alonso)

Indeed Nando The old man Enzo did use that term during his older years

[prince]

Pat Fry is thoroughly competent (IMHO). But Newey is a genius.

Red Bull is a good team led by a genius; Ferrari is a good team led by a competent man.

Need we go on?

As we all know, an F1 car is a combination of different scientific disciplilnes like Aerodynamic Physics, General Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Automobile Engineering, Electrical & Electronics and a bit of chemical engineering too. Are we assuming that Newey is a champion in each of these disciplines? Each of these disciplines takes a lifetime to learn and become an expert. I would like it to believe that there are some really good engineers in each of these divisions at Red Bull who are working in tandem to produce the results we are seeing. Newey is heading a good team and could be understanding their ideas and commissioning them. But to say, he is THE ONE who is designing everything, I guess is over the top. Just an example of their engineering strength is that they never mess up assembling the car and it becomes evident from the way the lap times that just get better and better in each session. There are some exceptions, but the margin is far lower compared to other top teams. Currently, Scuderia Ferrari although not as organized as Red Bull, is still competing with a Newey led Red Bull team, which is fantastic. Take out Domenicali and put a full stop to crap of their wind tunnel and other stuff, you will then have a Ferrari consistently beating Red Bull.

[f1316]

It's easy to become frustrated with the way the F2012 has progressed in recent races and, above all, the fixing of thewind tunnel issue seems as if it is the vital thing for Ferrari in the future; there's no point in continually turning up with parts that don't work, or work a bit, or don't work as expected. They've got the resources to produce as much if not more than the other teams, but they're throwing good money after bad.

But what gave me consolation this morning was reading the comment from Domenicali that, since 1997, only three times have Ferrari not brought the championship fight right down to the wire (unless they won it early). To always be in the fight is like always making the World Cup final, which gives us fans someone to root for and, at the end of the day, that's why we watch sport.

[Nando]

How crazy is Alonso on a scale to 10? About 45.

This is what he´s been doing since the SPA crash.

Monza - starts 10th ends 2nd.
Singapore - starts 5th ends 3rd.
Korea - starts 4th ends 3rd.
India - starts 5th ends 2nd.
Dhabi - starts 6th ends 2nd.
USA - starts 7th ends 3rd.

Not counted Suzuka as it was a DNF but since Monza, regardless of where he has started, he´s managed to get himself up on the podium every single time.

[amouzouris]

How crazy is Alonso on a scale to 10? About 45.

This is what he´s been doing since the SPA crash.

Monza - starts 10th ends 2nd.
Singapore - starts 5th ends 3rd.
Korea - starts 4th ends 3rd.
India - starts 5th ends 2nd.
Dhabi - starts 6th ends 2nd.
USA - starts 7th ends 3rd.

Not counted Suzuka as it was a DNF but since Monza, regardless of where he has started, he´s managed to get himself up on the podium every single time.

In addition, more worryingly..

Korea - starts 4th
India - starts 5th
Abu Dhabi - starts 6th
USA - starts 7th

can anyone see a trend?

[Nando]

Net result should equate to a podium finish though

This last race really isn´t about Alonso. It´s about Vettel. He needs a DNF because if that Red Bull even runs on half the potential he will be lurking at the top.

[Goran2812]

A commentator on our TV said during the USA race that Alonso made up 42 positions or smth like that from the start of the season...
They also said that Vettels Red Bull was on average 3 tenths quicker than Fred's F2012... just shows what kind of a driver he is...

[kledaras]

How crazy is Alonso on a scale to 10? About 45.

This is what he´s been doing since the SPA crash.

Monza - starts 10th ends 2nd.
Singapore - starts 5th ends 3rd.
Korea - starts 4th ends 3rd.
India - starts 5th ends 2nd.
Dhabi - starts 6th ends 2nd.
USA - starts 7th ends 3rd.

Not counted Suzuka as it was a DNF but since Monza, regardless of where he has started, he´s managed to get himself up on the podium every single time.

looks good, but in reality with the car thats not that great in qualifying, but with the top race pace it should be just like that.

[Nando]

looks good, but in reality with the car thats not that great in qualifying, but with the top race pace it should be just like that.

The thing is most positions he actually gains on lap 1.

Like USA, 4th after T1. there´s no race pace that does that.

[Sevach]

I agree, Ferrari fixed the problems of the F2012 in time for the first European race, but after that they didn't find much of a development path.
Meanwhile, Mclaren and RBR found ways to bring loads of performance after that, new sidepods, adjusted exhausts, tricky FWs...

[heho07]

Given that F2012 has a lot of problems will Ferrari next year car be revolutionary or evolutionary?

[Huntresa]

Given that F2012 has a lot of problems will Ferrari next year car be revolutionary or evolutionary?

Didnt they say before this season that they would be revolutionary ? Look at how that went xD If they know exactly what they did wrong with the design of this car they might be in a good place come Australia in 2013, but if they dont know they might end up at the same place again, and tbh there are things that point at both of these things, especially with their windtunnel still being bonkers.

[banibhusan]

Given that F2012 has a lot of problems will Ferrari next year car be revolutionary or evolutionary?

I doubt they will go for revolution. Mostly because from 2014 every top team will redesign their car completely because of the reg change. Ferrari has a fast car but there are certain weak areas which they are still not able to fix because of windtunnel or whatever it may be.

So my guess is they would try to first fix the wind tunnel and also work on fixing those areas of the car instead of completely redesigning from scratch. Mercedes on other instance will start from scratch as we have heard till now.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Given that F2012 has a lot of problems will Ferrari next year car be revolutionary or evolutionary?

It will largely depend on the people working over there. The new guy, Joic Bogois, may find the current level of aerodynamics unsatisfactory and push the team into brand new development direction. I don't think it's going to be drastically different, as the rules do not impose such change.

What F2012 really needs is a "specialty" - something to fight with the clever inventions of the rivals. Currently F2012 has none, at least not working.

I can't really agree that having front pull-rod is big advantage, I can't agree that the Helmoltz resonator chamber is great deal (it's been there for a long time, revealed in Brazil last year), but I give them my credit for the Aspiration flow prospect.

My personal humble view is that F2013 will remove the draggy Acer ducts and will adopt Red Bull style exhaust. Funnily enough, F2012 provoked some ideas that Mclaren implemented successfully circa Spa and Monza.
F2012 has been successful in managing airflow around the leading edge of the floor - one of the two places where the underbody actually creates downforce - we've seen numerous attempts at various bargeboards and turning vanes|vortex generators.

But again, F2013 needs a specialty. Be it "gentle on tires", "planted in slow speed corners", "unmatched in aero corners (to some extent true for F2012)", "slow in straight line, but great mechanical grip", "lowest levels of pitch sensitivity", "easy to find balance", etc.

Given that there are less tracks which require high terminal speed as opposed to balance in the corners and grip, I'd say that pursuing Red Bull style chassis and aero setup / config makes a whole lot more sense than being fast on the straight.
In that regard, however, I think F2012 has the upper hand for Brazil.

[banibhusan]

Given that there are less tracks which require high terminal speed as opposed to balance in the corners and grip, I'd say that pursuing Red Bull style chassis and aero setup / config makes a whole lot more sense than being fast on the straight.
In that regard, however, I think F2012 has the upper hand for Brazil.

Agreed. But I still think they will still struggle to match the RB in S2 at least. They will do fairly well in S1 and S3 though.