Driver styles/preferences

[timbo]

but if you're not gradually applying throttle to that point you're throwing away lap time.

Quite the opposite. The earlier you apply throttle, the more it is being used to thrust you to the outside of the corner - exactly what you don't want. The longer you hold your tight radius, the more your thrust will be pointed down the ensuing straight - exactly what you do want.

Basically you have a choice - and a trade-off - where do you want to use a tighter radius to get more cornering done, and where do you want to use more throttle to achieve a higher velocity. The fastest way is to hold a tight radius around the corner, then go to full-throttle (while increasing the radius) at the earliest point you can do so without leaving the track.

Have you ever seen throttle telemetry of a non-TC car?
Or ever paid attention to the sound of TC on the corner exit?
Once you've past the apex (and many times before the apex) you start gradually feed the throttle and release the steering.

[Adrian Newby]

It's hard to grasp at first as people don't realise that you decrease brake as you increase steering.

IMO where you're getting crossed up with JT (whose word I'd take on this topic any day of the week -- btw JT, Ciro said hi) is that JT, to my read, is saying you decrease radius (tighten the steering) up to the apex as you trail the braking right up to the apex, then you unwind and increase the radius from apex to exit as you power out.

That's my take on what JT is saying as well. And - in my opinion - he is wrong on just about all of it, but he's just regurgitating Racing 101.

[Adrian Newby]

....

[raymondu999]

in my opinion - he is wrong on just about all of it, but he's just regurgitating Racing 101.

Your wording is confusing me slightly so let me check that I got this straight:
- You think JT is wrong
- You think JT is regurgitating Racing 101
- By extension of the two, Racing 101 is wrong.

Is that right?

[Adrian Newby]

....

[timbo]

My contention is that if the driver has driven the proper line, at exit he has room to increase the radius and go to full-throttle (initially limited by wheel spin in high HP cars).

Define "exit". The proper line always lies somewhere at the outside-inside-outside routine (there can be variations if the straight is too short for the next corner), surely when you end at the final "outside" you have straight steering and is at maximum longitudinal acceleration available. But between the inside and outside you're slowly decreasing lateral acceleration and feed in as much throttle as car can handle.

[Adrian Newby]

....

[Adrian Newby]

....

[Nando]

Please put forth your case in a clean and clear manner and we can look at it.

Is it only 180 degree turns you are specifically talking about? Even if there´s a corner right after this 180 degree turn.
That also goes into another corner.
Or is it simply 180 degree turn, long straight ahead, where would you put your apex.

[Adrian Newby]

....

[Nando]

The 180 degree turn is the example we are working with at the moment, to keep things simple. Assume a straight follows it, once again, to keep things simple. If apex means something to you and your ideal concept/model, then feel free to use it.

A long straight? 7th gear straight?

if it´s the main straight we have to introduce the start/finish line. It will be important.

Starting my lap i would take a super late apex, go all the way out to the bottom of the hairpin but before the geometrical apex.
Then get on the power nice, hard and early. this is because that time you will gain before you hit the brakes.
Not out of the corner, not in the corner, not the first 30-40m of the straight after either.
by taking a late apex you loose time in the above mentioned.
It´s only at the end of the straight you gain it back and some more.

When i´m on my hotlap looking to finish the lap, i will aim for somewhere around the geometrical apex because you can´t sacrifice the entry because you are gonna loose time until the start/finish straight.
All you need is maximise entry, take exit as normal and cross the line.

If you spend time sacrificing entry to set up a nice early exit you will have blown your laptime.

[raymondu999]

Nando - I think for the purpose of this discussion Adrian Newby is just looking at a circuit shaped like a tuning fork. Massive straight, 180 degree hairpin, massive straight.

[Adrian Newby]

....

[Adrian Newby]

....

[Nando]

high speed 180?

hug the inside and track out when you can. If you start slowing the car down to cut the exit you are probably not gonna get that back because you are already travelling at high speeds.

you´ll probably loose more time in the corner then you actually gain at the end of the straight into the next 180.