About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

[stfn_ger]

I think you can appeal a result I guess? Not sure though.

I'm not sure either, figured i ask you guys

Art. 174 d) of the sporting code suits this case the most i think:

d) Protests against any error or irregularity occurring during a competition, referring to the non-compliance of vehicles with the regulations and concerning the classification established at the end of the event shall, except in circumstances which the stewards of the meeting consider as physically impossible, be made within thirty minutes of the official publication of the results.

So IF Ferrari would have wanted to lodge a protest, they should have done it already on sunday.

[turbof1]

I dearly hope not thatthere will be an appeal. It wouldn't exactly be an act of sportmanship and you have to realise how it would make Alonso feel: no driver wants to become world champion due off-circuit politics. I don't see Ferrari doing it either; Pat Fry said right after the race it wasn't an issue.

That is IF Ferrari has a case to make. FIA and stewards said what Vettel did was fine. For me personally this whole situation got much too complex (especially with the floppy markers which are difficult to see), so I can't judge on that myself and I'll just assume the decision is the correct one, as they have more data and video image to their disposal.

[raymondu999]

So IF Ferrari would have wanted to lodge a protest, they should have done it already on sunday.

I think it's more that they *would* already have done it. I'd be surprised if they didn't have 2 guys specifically watching Vettel's onboard camera in Brazil, looking out for questionable & penalisable moves.

[Dragonfly]

So IF Ferrari would have wanted to lodge a protest, they should have done it already on sunday.

I think it's more that they *would* already have done it. I'd be surprised if they didn't have 2 guys specifically watching Vettel's onboard camera in Brazil, looking out for questionable & penalisable moves.

I am sure the same applies to RBR. And the lack of (currently) discussions about eventual illegal moves by Alonso does not mean there are no such.

[raymondu999]

Yep, naturally.

[siskue2005]

Hi all,

This is a fantastic forum in order to discuss, learn, explain and probably understand what really happened in lap 4 with Vettel (Red Bull) and Vergne (Toro Rosso).

The zone is yellow, Vettel overtake Vergne, Vettel must receive a penalty.

Can someone please explain why this ilegal action is in your opinion a legal action? Someone told that there was an extra Marshal/Floppy Maker/Ghost... who was showing a green flag but nobody can show a video or picture in order to save the legality of Vettel Championship so I suppose you are wrong instead of spanish media which is only trying to know what happened there and clarify the results accordingly to the rules.

You have 10-20 videos in youtube (several languages) explaining the ilegal overtake. Do you have something to really say that was legal?

Thanks so much.

exactly, you can legally pass someone even in yellow flag zone in special conditions
1. The driver spun or run off the confines of the track
2. Driver slows down abnormally (which is what happened here, no body slows down in a straight)
3. Driver crashed or technical problem

i thought people had learned about this after Melbourne 2009?

[FormulaFast]

siskue2005 wrote:
exactly, you can legally pass someone even in yellow flag zone in special conditions
1. The driver spun or run off the confines of the track
2. Driver slows down abnormally (which is what happened here, no body slows down in a straight)3. Driver crashed or technical problem

Thanks siskue2005.

In your opinion Vergne was driving abnormally slow so Vettel was forced to overtake even inside a yellow flag zone, but then I have 2 questions:
1. Do you have some data to demonstrate that? Vergne finalized at 8 position... it was a good race for him.
2. If Vergne was driving so slow, Can someone please explain why? Is Toro Rosso the same team of Red Bull so Toro Rosso cars must let Red Bull cars overtake without oposition? In this case the competition is absolutelly a fake... half of cars are Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Renault motor or german like Schumi. Team orders are allowed in the team, but not outside... Is it a clean sport?

Fernando Alonso had the same problem 2 years ago durign the last race and nobody let him overtake so each car was a big problem (this is Formula1), in the other hand the last sunday upto 5 cars were working for Vettel, driving slow or even go out of the road when Vettel was close.

[Cam]

It's like there's an echo in here magnified by zero objectivity emitted by fan boys.

Deep breath. Okay, look at the video again and see the red circle. That's where the guy is waving a green flag. Regardless of what the dash is saying, Vettel can state he saw the green flag and was free to overtake. If that green flag was not there - Vettel was in trouble. There is no conspiracy and will be no protest. It's time to move on people. Build a bridge and get over it.

[fritticaldi]

It's a falsified World Championship. Red Bull bought the stewards. I mean they sponsor everything ..lol

[vall]

I don't know. From the video it seems he indeed overtook the TR with yellow light on.

[Nando]

Yea don´t mind the massive red circle to the left.

[Cam]

I don't know. From the video it seems he indeed overtook the TR with yellow light on.

*sigh* one last time...ready.... regardless, the pass is fine. It probably was a genuine mistake from the flag marshall, however he clearly told the driver it was ok to pass - so he did. You cannot penalise a driver for following instructions. The stewards would have considered this. The same is true if there was no lights on the dash yet a waved yellow - a driver could argue he looked at the dash and though it was ok. The system isn't perfect and mistakes happen.

No-one is saying it's not strange, its just that nothing will be done. A green flag is clearly shown. End of story.

[wesley123]

It's like there's an echo in here magnified by zero objectivity emitted by fan boys.

Deep breath. Okay, look at the video again and see the red circle. That's where the guy is waving a green flag. Regardless of what the dash is saying, Vettel can state he saw the green flag and was free to overtake. If that green flag was not there - Vettel was in trouble. There is no conspiracy and will be no protest. It's time to move on people. Build a bridge and get over it.

Even further on in the vid there is a green light blinking. Whether or not he overtook under yellows, he can simply state the green light further on the straight or the green flag as enough evidence.

[vall]

It's like there's an echo in here magnified by zero objectivity emitted by fan boys.

Deep breath. Okay, look at the video again and see the red circle. That's where the guy is waving a green flag. Regardless of what the dash is saying, Vettel can state he saw the green flag and was free to overtake. If that green flag was not there - Vettel was in trouble. There is no conspiracy and will be no protest. It's time to move on people. Build a bridge and get over it.

Even further on in the vid there is a green light blinking. Whether or not he overtook under yellows, he can simply state the green light further on the straight or the green flag as enough evidence.

could you post the video this snap shot was taken from?

[Intego]

Again, as was posted several times by several members with several sources:
Light are supplementary, only flags count.
No pass was made under yellow flags, by no driver.

I'm a friend of clearing things up and this is done now thanks to all who provided sources. There's no need to ask redundant questions. Case closed.

could you post the video this snap shot was taken from?

was already posted in this thread