Driver styles/preferences

[Jersey Tom]

I'd give the benefit of the doubt here in that maybe there's been some misconstrued explanation, but it seems that would be unlikely given how it's been gone over several times.

As I've said, if you haven't already I'd encourage doing the vehicle dynamics work yourself on the topic and proving (or disproving) any number of theories and explanations. Doesn't matter what I or "the forum" or whoever says. Words are just words. Am I typically fairly blunt with this stuff? Sure. Won't deny that.

Just saying, you'll note watching just about any onboard video of auto racing, your "average" corner tends to be the same routine... brake in straight line, come off brakes while smoothly adding steer, hold at constant steering (and corner radius) briefly, then unwind steering as you feel your way to wide open.

Funnily enough that Twitter picture from LH's telemetry even shows this (unfortunate that it's so damn small and over a whole lap rather than one corner). Now it's possible that he, all the other race car drivers, myself and all other automotive or motorsport engineers have it all wrong - but you have to at least admit that's a bit statistically unlikely.

[Nando]

It's not that. You just may not "get it" (to quote JT) unless you get it on your own because it goes against something you were almost born "knowing".

I've been dropping hints. Let's see how it comes along.

Honestly....i´ve been trying to understand what you are saying, i´ve changed my theory based on your preferences several times now, i honestly don´t know what more i can do,

I think i have answered every single question you had. If not, please post up that specific question.

[Adrian Newby]

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[Adrian Newby]

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[Jersey Tom]

Do you still think you should trail-brake and tighten the radius all the way to the apex of a 180 degree turn?

If we're talking about a "generic" corner where you're braking from high speed and then traction-limited on exit then yep, absolutely.

[Adrian Newby]

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[Jersey Tom]

Don't know off hand, not going to put a hard number on it. Depends on specifics, and nomenclature for that matter. I'd probably start by aiming to be closest to the inside of the track (clipping point) somewhere past half-way... which I believe then forces the path apex (point of minimum radius or braking / on throttle transition point) somewhere a bit before half-way.

In any event, no portion of the trajectory would really be constant radius.. for reasons covered prior. If you want to call the clipping point the "apex" then I'd already be on-throttle by that point. To me though, as far as car performance is concerned it's easier to speak of the path trajectory by itself.

[Adrian Newby]

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[Jersey Tom]

I stated that the clipping point (i.e. touching closest to the inside of the track) would be somewhere past half way, the intent being to maximize corner exit. Just how far past that is.. I don't think there's a global "best" number of 'x' degrees out of 180. I think that's specific to the corner and car taking it.

As an aside, to be able to accomplish this should require a larger radius past the geometric center of the corner than whatever your tightest point is. That's the only way you can be accelerating at that point - if you've started to release some lateral acceleration, allowing your tires to have forward traction.

[Adrian Newby]

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[Jersey Tom]

Do you really want your "on throttle transition point" to be "a bit before half-way"?

To accomplish what we're both describing - what some would call "late apexing" - the tightest part of the path (as in literally the smallest radius and what I would consider the trajectory or path apex) has to be before half-way. I don't think there's a way around that, geometrically. That's why I don't particularly like calling it late apexing as you are getting the car pointed early. Holding a tight radius past half way would actually be what some would call "early apexing" (or really, early clipping).

The intent is to start getting on throttle as early as possible. Once you're past the tightest part of the trajectory and you've started to release some steering / lateral acceleration, if you're not getting into the throttle you're missing out on forward traction and losing lap time.

[timbo]

Do you really want your "on throttle transition point" to be "a bit before half-way"? You've made it clear that you won't be on a constant radius at any point, so unless you're actually accelerating (not just coasting/keeping status quo), you won't be maximizing the use of your traction. And if you are accelerating, why in the world are you doing that before you are even halfway around the corner?

To carry out as much speed as you can onto the straight. Slow in/fast out.
Although that varies on different parameters.

[Adrian Newby]

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[timbo]

I don't see how accelerating before halfway on a 180 degree turn does anything but harm. Consider the direction of this new acceleration - right at the exit straight wall, while all of your lateral traction efforts will be used to keep you off of that wall.

I get slow in, fast out, but fast out before halfway on a 180 degree turn is the fast way into the wall.

Look at the picture.


You would start to accelerate a tad before the "middle of the track" point.

[Adrian Newby]

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