About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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To be honest, with the spectacular contrast in the video (sarcasm intended) it is indeed very difficult to make out the color. But there's not a chance in hell that's yellow.
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Redragon
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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raymondu999 wrote:I was lead to this article: http://www.abc.es/deportes/f1/20121128/ ... 80851.html

Yo no hablo español, but I was reliably told it is saying Ferrari will not pursue? Can any Spaniards confirm?

They say that Alonso wants to complain and he is trying to convince Ferrari to do it, based on the speculation of Alonso's yesterday tweet. Also, says he is fuming too when he acknwoledge that Vergne slowed down on Safety Car circustances at the end of the race trying to gain a 20s gap between him and Vettel. All speculations. ABC is one of the worst newspapers on Spain, they are basing most of their news on manipulation of the facts, kind of old News of the World.

mnmracer
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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Redragon wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:I was lead to this article: http://www.abc.es/deportes/f1/20121128/ ... 80851.html

Yo no hablo español, but I was reliably told it is saying Ferrari will not pursue? Can any Spaniards confirm?

They say that Alonso wants to complain and he is trying to convince Ferrari to do it, based on the speculation of Alonso's yesterday tweet. Also, says he is fuming too when he acknwoledge that Vergne slowed down on Safety Car circustances at the end of the race trying to gain a 20s gap between him and Vettel. All speculations. ABC is one of the worst newspapers on Spain, they are basing most of their news on manipulation of the facts, kind of old News of the World.
If Red Bull was trying to get a 20s gap to be safe, Vettel would not have left his own 3.7s gap to Hülkenberg.

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raymondu999
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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Thanks Redragon.

Now, ladies and gentlemen - if we may now move along - I have plenty more to show you.

Presenting,
Exhibit A: Article 174 (d) of the International Sporting Code
Protests against any error or irregularity occurring during a competition, referring to the non-compliance of vehicles with the regulations and concerning the classification established at the end of the event shall, except in circumstances which the stewards of the meeting consider as physically impossible, be made within thirty minutes of the official publication of the results.
Some of you may recall that when McLaren in Brazil 2007 tried to lodge a protest against what they thought was illegally cooled fuel. It was declared inadmissible, because instead of protesting the race classification within 30 minutes of publication, they decided to protest against a steward decision.

If Ferrari were going to protest the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix, they should have done the same thing, but obviously they haven’t.

To my understanding, at this point in time, the only way this can be investigated now is if the FIA chooses to do so.

Which leads me to
Exibit B: Article 179bis (Right of review) of the International Sporting Code
If, in events forming part of a FIA Championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA, must meet on a date agreed amongst themselves, summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them.

The right of appeal against this new decision is confined to the party or parties concerned in accordance with the final paragraph of Article 180 and the following Articles of this Code.

Should the first decision already have been the subject of an appeal before the National Court of Appeal or before the International Court of Appeal, or successively before both of these courts, the case shall be lawfully submitted to them for the possible revision of their previous decision. The International Court of Appeal may take up the review of a case that it has judged, either on its own initiative or upon an appeal in review brought by the FIA President or by one of the parties concerned and/or directly affected by its former decision.

The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship.
In conclusion: So Ferrari can no longer lodge a protest, but if the FIA choose to, they can investigate this one. The deadline is tomorrow, so we don't have to wait long for the outcome.
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Shrieker
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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mnmracer wrote:The gif has been cleaned up a bit, and now clearly shows a flag being waved.
The FIA are a bunch of dumb f***s. Why not put a light at every marshall post. How much more would that cost, a thousand bucks, maybe two ? Sheesh...
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Redragon
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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From my point of view, Alonso and Ferrari are not going to protest. They accepted they defeat on Sunday.
But the FIA is the one who has to clarify the general doubts, even if the results stays on same way.
They need to clarify the flag rules and what it is their interpretation on this case for future problems created on same way.

elf341
elf341
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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The cynic in me says it doesn't really matter if there was a green flag waved or not. After all, who remembers Schumacher very clearly overtaking under a green flag at Monaco 2010? And still being slapped with a penalty (with the FIA even changing the rules at the end of the year to add some kind of retrospective justification).

If Ferrari wants to, they could expend some political capital and get some serious concessions next year in exchange for not contesting the results - that's probably the best step forward here. I'm thinking behind-closed-doors style instruction of stewards to be "lenient", or technical directives favouring Ferrari more than others. They can still gain something.

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turbof1
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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You know, this is all going nowhere. Everything is being repeated for 9 pages, so I want to draw attention to something else that is yellow, showed on the multiple gifs and images:
press <yellow button> to change audio because the current audio is kinda repetitive.
#AeroFrodo

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Redragon
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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Ferrari just sending letter for clarification, not official complain

Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
Ferrari have sent a letter to the FIA asking for a clarification about the Vettel yellow flag situation. Story soon

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turbof1
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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Redragon wrote:Ferrari just sending letter for clarification, not official complain

Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
Ferrari have sent a letter to the FIA asking for a clarification about the Vettel yellow flag situation. Story soon
Ah the "clarification trick". Haven't we seen that alot when teams informally want to complain about some technical aspects of other cars?
Basicilly they can't contest the result of the race themselves anymore, so they push the fia towards action.
#AeroFrodo

Dragonfly
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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FIA says 'no case' to answer in Vettel overtaking controversy
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104644

Now, can we stop this madness?
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Cam
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 08:38

Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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thank goodness that's resolved.

We can all see the Marshal post on the map - it's there alright.

Image
FIA sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that the yellow-flag sector at Interlagos started at the light panel just before Turn 3, at marshal sector 3, and ends about 150m before Turn 4, where a green light panel is displayed.

However, there is a marshal's post in between these two panels and a green flag was being waved there on that lap.

Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP, if a green flag is displayed before a green light - as it was in Vettel's case - it is the first green that counts.

Therefore, the FIA is in no doubt that Vettel's pass was legitimate, which is why race control was not informed of any potential infringement.
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Shrieker
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

GrizzleBoy
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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So I heard Vettel actually purposely crashed into Senna to get an extra slot in the floor.

Any news/clarification on that?

megasyxx
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Re: About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

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GrizzleBoy wrote:So I heard Vettel actually purposely crashed into Senna to get an extra slot in the floor.

Any news/clarification on that?

C'mon! :D :lol: